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Re: Response to musings.(also long but hopefully not a rant)

Posted by ChrisB on 10/09/2003 09:28:59 PM

Great write-up, glad you had a good time here for the GABF, it was great meeting you, hopefully I'll get the chance in your hometown.

As for your questions, I'll go in reverse order.

1 oz pour - the GABF, due to it's size, needs certain infrastructure to work. Not the least of which is lodgeing, public transportation, some sort of roof over our head, and ways to unload all of the beer, etc. When you look into it, very few options exist. This is a matter that has been looked into for the last 4 years VERY intensively ever since the festival was forced to move out of the last hall (was being torn down to make way for the expansion of the Convention center). The CC has an exclusive provider of food and beverage for the facility. Any food and beverage has to be provided by the provider unless you "buy off" the provider for every food/drink ($$$) with one exception, "samples" (defined in the providers contract as being "1oz or less") do not have to go through the provider. We "pay off" the provider for the beer garden area (a set fee) and Old Chicago pays the provider for having their booth there. 1 oz. also does a few other things, it decreases the amount of wasted beer (also an environmental problem, it overloads the sewer system also costing additional $) it increases the # of beers one can sample and logistically it also decreases the amount of beer that has to be brought through the crowd to the booths (and found in the storage trailers to be taken to the correct booth), it therefore decreases the cost to the brewers (which is already enough, remember, the kegs are also donated for this event).

The Tip System - this system gets to the heart of America. The THEORY is that one's pay is dependant on one's work (more work, do a faster/better job=more pay) As for other countries "paying a living wage" I've talked with bar staff in other countries, it ain't a living wage (neither is the minimum wage here). A barman in London making L6.50 isn't living. My staff here all make more than I do. They can usuall live (albeit frugally) on 3-4 nites work and get on nicely if they work a couple of additional shifts (here or elsewhere). Pretty much in the service indusrty, you (as a server) hope that the hourly wage will pay the taxes on the declared tips you make (often it doesn't). Here I find that I can get people that have skills, are intelligent and interesting, whereas sometimes in other countries the service industry is near the bottom (a step above chambermaid) and comprises people that couldn't get a "real job" (as those of us in the service industry refer to those with a 9-5 type job). Most of the people in the service industry here just want a different lifestyle than offered in a "real job", more flexible hours, time off etc. Many here in CO like to ski/board/mtn bike/etc. during the day and work @ nite. Every country has their own "normal" practice and the traveler's job is to familiarize themselves with the customs of the country to which you travel (the old "when in Rome..." deal). I don't want to bash anyone's system, just explain where our's comes from. (notice also that I started off THEORY, there are waitstaff that think they should get an exorbitant tip just for showing up to work, but we're not going to get into that rant here). When you are sitting @ a table in a bar/restaurant remember you are occupying a definite portion of the waiter's ability to earn (they are given a certain section of tables in an effort to equalize their earning potential), hey if they don't perform, don't reward them, it's that simple. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to go off here, I've had the benefit of travelling most of my life, I've been someplace besides th US on numerous occasions and been exposed to different systems, so I'll view a foreigner differently than will most of my waitstaff. Tranferring tabs on most nites is not a big deal, during GABF it becomes a nitemare and I generally am the one to lose out. I don't want to offend anyone, I'm not criticising, I'm just trying to explain so that people (including some from right here in the US) can learn, it's not the most efficient thing I know when all you want is the beer, but when you are seated, order from the waitstaff, it causes less looks at gets the whole table better service than if half the table is ordering from the waitstaff and half from the bar, that's just how it is for better or worse.

EGN - Yes it's F%$@#ing annoying, but unfortunately we tried having only one small TV @ the end of the bar (sound off) for scores of sporting events but that business model was not particularly successful, if you want to enjoy a quieter time in the FR, like Logan says, come in on a Monday-Wednesday when there is no baseball or GABF, I daresay the Kulminator is not as enjoyable during the 24Uhr as on a normal day. The people that come out on weekends tend to be of a different ilk than the more seasoned weekday types (the amatuers on weekends) who tend to go more for the quantity than the quality. Just a reality we have to live with. I don't have the option of closing on weekends (ie Bier Circus) to avoid the situation, my landlord charges me rent 365 days a year, & I'm open every day he charges me rent (even if there's 3+ft of snow on the ground).

Glass dropping Assholes. The GABF was nearly cancelled due to this juvenile behavior. When we were trying to secure the Convention center as a site in advance of the tearing down of the other hall, the director of the CC nearly didn't allow the fest in "his" hall (we were able to go over his head since the hall belongs to the citizens of our fair city not him) by agreeing to no glass in the hall (except the special Saturday awards session).

"move it" etc other criticisms - The GABF did not spring full-grown from the head of Zeus, it evolved over the last 22 years and requires literally thousands of volunteers and tens of thousands of volunteer hours to pull off, I fully admit it's not perfect, that's why we change things every year and tweak it to keep going towards a goal we know we'll never reach. "it's flawed" #1 sour grapes, #2 DUH. We're talking about taste, of course it's going to be SUBjective, the guidelines are a way of decreasing the subjectivity of the process but you can't eliminate it short of programming a computer to do the sampling and then spitting out a result (kinda takes the romance out of it) and even then subjectivity come in on who gets to program it. Styles are just an arbitrary way of attempting to inform the customer of what's to be expected. If the "be-all and end-all" is to win medals then brew to win medals (ie brew to the specifics of the categories) otherwise brew to please the customers who (hopefully) will then buy your beer and make you successful in that way. otherwise get over it.

I'll jump ahead to Kieth Villa, Absolutely one of the best people in the industry, irrespective of the size of the brewery. Unbelievably knowledgable and helpful, never a cross word, never condescending towards those without aas much expertise (which would be nearly everyone) I also have had the pleasure of judgeing with him and have spent many hours drinking with him. One thing, he also shows up to judge homebrew competitions just because he enjoys being around people that enjoy products other than industrolager.

All in all I enjoyed your reactions and observations and look forwards to another time maybe when I don't have to work so much and can spend more time just sitting down and drinking.

best reguards

chris

MUSINGS ON AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT - Joris P., 10/07/03 04:30:05 PM
        Joris you're a pompous ass - Tony, 10/13/03 04:11:11 PM
        Re: MUSINGS ON AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT - Rasputin, 10/10/03 07:24:52 AM
        Re: Response to musings.(also long but hopefully not a rant) - ChrisB, 10/09/03 09:28:59 PM
                Re: Response to musings.(also long but hopefully not a rant) - SteveG, 10/10/03 10:17:22 AM
                Re: Response to musings - Oops - Joris P., 10/10/03 06:19:21 AM
                        Re: Response to musings - Oops - Mark A, 10/13/03 12:21:14 PM
                        Re: Response to musings - Oops - Mitch Mather, 10/10/03 10:34:32 AM
                        Re: Response to musings - Oops - SteveG, 10/10/03 10:21:15 AM
        Re: MUSINGS ON AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT - Joelle, 10/09/03 02:29:15 PM
        dropouts, tramps, and other sorry people - AlanC, 10/08/03 07:33:14 PM
                Re: dropouts, tramps, and other sorry people - Mark A, 10/13/03 12:26:04 PM
                Re: dropouts, tramps, and other sorry people - Aaron, 10/09/03 08:56:42 AM
                        Re: dropouts, tramps, and other sorry people - Joris P., 10/09/03 10:54:05 AM
                                Re: dropouts, tramps, and other sorry people - Bill Coleman, 10/11/03 10:30:15 AM
                                Re: dropouts, tramps, and other sorry people - podge, 10/09/03 02:02:45 PM
                Re: dropouts, tramps, and other sorry people - Joris P., 10/09/03 02:59:38 AM
                        Re: dropouts, tramps, and other sorry people - Mark A, 10/13/03 12:28:49 PM
                                weather - KSq Domer, 10/13/03 03:12:40 PM
        Great post! - Jeremy Gray, 10/08/03 03:46:20 PM
                Lip Burner Lamb Beak - Joelle, 10/09/03 02:16:54 PM
                Huh? - Jeremy Gray, 10/08/03 03:47:41 PM
        Re: MUSINGS ON AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT - John Sturm, 10/08/03 12:21:39 PM
                Re: MUSINGS ON AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT - SteveG, 10/08/03 01:13:56 PM
                        Re: MUSINGS ON AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT - Andy Ager, 10/08/03 01:21:09 PM
        Re: MUSINGS ON AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT - AlanC, 10/08/03 11:54:47 AM
        Great 'read' but a thought or two on the good 'ol USofA - ToddA, 10/08/03 09:09:27 AM
                Re: Great 'read' but a thought or two on the good 'ol USofA - Joris P., 10/08/03 11:37:32 AM
                        No need to take you to task... - ToddA, 10/08/03 11:58:26 AM
                        Re: Great 'read' but a thought or two on the good 'ol USofA - SteveG, 10/08/03 11:46:43 AM
                                Re: Great 'read' but a thought or two on the good 'ol USofA - Joris P., 10/08/03 05:33:43 PM
                                        Re: Great 'read' but a thought or two on the good 'ol USofA - SteveG, 10/09/03 12:38:10 PM
                                                Amen Steve! - Joelle, 10/09/03 02:23:09 PM
        Re: MUSINGS ON AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT - Jake, 10/07/03 06:45:01 PM
                Water - notes - bread - samplers - Logan, 10/08/03 05:15:04 PM
                Re: MUSINGS ON AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT - Mitch Mather, 10/08/03 09:48:33 AM
                        Re: MUSINGS ON AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT - Andy Ager, 10/08/03 11:13:32 AM
                                Re: MUSINGS ON AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT - Jake, 10/08/03 01:27:20 PM
                                        Re: MUSINGS ON AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT - Mitch Mather, 10/08/03 03:12:53 PM
                                                Re: MUSINGS ON AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT - Mitch Mather, 10/08/03 03:15:33 PM
                                                        Re: MUSINGS ON AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT - Joris P., 10/08/03 03:34:18 PM
                                                                Re: MUSINGS ON AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT - Jake, 10/08/03 08:15:57 PM
                                                                        Re: MUSINGS ON AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT - Mark A, 10/13/03 12:52:36 PM
                Re: MUSINGS ON AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT - Aaron, 10/08/03 08:29:06 AM
        Re: MUSINGS ON AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT - David Anderson, 10/07/03 05:23:04 PM
        The above is abominalby long and dreary. You're warned. nfm - Joris P., 10/07/03 04:30:54 PM

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