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SteveG
05/31/05 06:57 AM  
What are you doing that's "out there"?
Being a home brewer can be about saving a few bucks or it can be about embracing the spirit of experimentation. So Glenn and Warren are looking at a project that necessitiates a wine keg. Me? I'm hell on proving lambic with a local influence can happen outside of the Senne valley - like in New Jersey for instance. Been on this one 2 years, I expect it to go on a good 2 more. I'm also seeing how much horse-whipping Roeselare yeast can handle.

How 'bout you? Sure, we're all doing our pilsners and dry hopping our IPAs, but is anyone out there treading down a path that is otherwise devoid of footprints? If you are tempted by the dark underbelly of homebrewing tell us. We may fear you, but we'll be nice!

Oh Sebastian, I already fear you! what a staggering collection of experiments you have. I USED to think I had a lot!!

Chet
05/31/05 10:55 AM  
Re: What are you doing that's
I've been doing some Bretta Brux experiments - making a larger batch of a beer then separating a gallon off to ferment (no sacc yeast, just the Brux).

A blended "Barnyard Brown" if you will...consisting so far of a Brown Porter (1 gal post boil) and the last 1.5 gallons of a brown ale (pre boil).

There's also a gallon of Bourbon Barrel Bretta Brux Baltic Porter (fun to try saying multiple times after a few beers) that's....doing something, I think....

May blend all together later...

Plus a Belgian Pale that has multiple lambic dregs, lactobaccillus, acidophilus, Roeseare, and the aforementioned bretta brux.

SteveG
05/31/05 11:51 AM  
Re: What are you doing that's
<<Bourbon Barrel Bretta Brux Baltic Porter>>

Too bad this one wasn't a "bitter"! That'd really be a name!!

So how are the Brettanomyces beers coming along? My impression is that there is a new (or lesser known) brett strain that is behind the recent push to use this as a primary agent. Don't remember what it was called, I read about it in Tommes article. Any thoughts on what to expect for full fermentation timing? What does it look like in action? Any weird formations on the top of the beer?

So you are blending with unboiled beer? What is your objective, just to see what happens?

bstill
05/31/05 12:24 PM  
Re: What are you doing that's
I just brewed a Porter dry hopped with 3 strains of Belgian yeast and french roast coffee. And aslo have a Saison spiced with bitter orange peel, fresh ginger root, and rosemary. then racked it onto some organic strawberries and mangos!

we shall see!

b...

Chet
05/31/05 12:32 PM  
Re: What are you doing that's
It went through a longer than normal (sacc yeast being normal) lag time - a good 4 days to really get going (this looked like a normal fermentation, btw); this lasted about 7 days, then tailed off. The brett "skin" formed on the surface about 2 1/2 weeks later, iirc.

It was surprisingly fruity to me - not so much sour as slightly tart. It's my understanding that to really sour, it needs to get air - hence barrel aging working well. Since it's in glass, it may not reach it's full potential. In one of the other threads it was mentioned that plastic buckets are oxy permeable, so I may transfer it into one down the line (if it doesn't seem to be souring enough...)

As far as the unboiled wort angle, I got the idea from some things I'd read on Berliner Weisse being mash hopped with no boil. As the brown ale I was making was fairly heavily hopped with Amarillo, it wasn't a good fit with the "sour" beer, so I pulled it prior to boiling.

Lowieke
05/31/05 04:45 PM  
Re: What are you doing that's
Last home brew was made with these Amsterdam herbs in it. BTW this was a brew with a student for who this was a creative brew for an exam. He got 90% so teachers must have been impressed by the brew, without knowing what they were drinking. Used an exraction of the herbs in alcohol before adding in lagering. Worked out in a plesant bitterness but was litle sleepy...
SebastianP
06/01/05 01:12 AM  
Re: What's out there
Well, I would hardly consider any of my current beers "out there", I'll expand on my thoughts/ motivations for the Saisons I have going right now.

The first three were, in one way or another, inspired by the tradition of using local and/or regional ingredients in a Saison.

Saison #1:

Brewed with Piloncillo (mexican unrefined sugar)~8.6%, WLP565. Using 1 lb in a 5.5 gal batch this sugar created a wonderful copper colored brew that has hints of caramel, molasses, and butterscotch. I recently bottled this beer turned out really well and I will definitely be useing Piloncillo again.

Saison #2:

Brewed with 16oz of Prickly pear concentrate in 5.5 gal ~7%, WLP565. This beer was inspired by Dany's "perported" use of various fruit juices in the regular Fantome. I wanted to add just enough that the fruit creates an underlying character to the beer. Time will tell, this should be bottled in a month or so.

Saison #3:

In the upcoming months I will be brewing a Pumpkin Saison. I really like the flavor of pumpkin (mashed of course), in beer, but only when it has not been drowned out by the typical spices that are normally associated as pumpkin flavor. I usually use 3 to 4 pounds of pie pumkin pulp per 5.5 gallon batch.

Saison #4:

4 grain (barley, Kamut, Spelt, Rye)~7.25%, WLP565. This beer happened because I was in the local natural foods store, and I deciede to grab a couple interesting grains to see what happens. I recently bottled this and I really like how the adjunct grains added a ton of body to this beer that finished at 1.001.

Saison #5:

Spiced Saison, lightly spiced with pepper, tepins, anise, ginger, lavender. ~5%, WLP565. Here I was just wanting to add a hint of spices (1/2 to 1 gram of each spice). I don't want any particular spice to be in noticeable, just a rounded complex whole.

Saison #6:

Hoppy Saison mix of Saaz, Amarillo, Santiam ~5%, WLP565. This one was brewed to answer the question of what an IPA style Saison would be. The bitterness was kept relatively low at 25 IBUs, but lots of flavor and aroma hop additions where made.

Saison #7: Brewed with 6lbs of Ccranberries ~7%, WLP565. Why 6 pounds of cranberries? Back when I first started brewing I through together a holiday ale using 6lbs of cranberries, it turned out quite nice, with the tartness really showing through. I figured that, after all this time, it would be interesting to brew a Saison version of this beer.

I do want to do an all Brett beer at some point. The new lesser known Brett strain is a Brett Anamola is what Tomme Arthur was using for Mo Betta Bretta (from Peter at New Belgium).

SteveG
06/01/05 07:03 AM  
Re: What are you doing that's
Maybe none of this is "out there", but clearly you are a motivated experimental brewer. It's that spirit that I was more inquiring about...

>>Saison #2:<<

Sounds great! I had a saison tasting at my house before Fantome was available. I got some through Bruno at belgianshop.com. We probably spent 10 minutes debating what the fruit was. Undefinable mystery fruit is a great addition to a saison I think!

>>Saison #3:<<

No spice - good man. I once told my homebrew shop owner I was going to make a pumpkin ale with no spices. He said "but it won't taste like pumpkin"! That was the day I stopped taking his advice.

>>Saison #4:<<

I feel healthy just reading it!

>>Brett Anamola<<

Right! Looking forward to seeing this one. Man, you must have a lot of carboys! I would imagine, considering how traditional your general thinking is, that these will all be bottled?

SebastianP
06/01/05 01:07 PM  
Re: Bottling Saisons
SteveG wrote

<<Man, you must have a lot of carboys! I would imagine, considering how traditional your general thinking is, that these will all be bottled?>>

I think that I have about 20 total fermentors of various shapes or sizes, why I don't know, but you never now when you will need an extra.

I usually consider bottling a P.I.T.A, and avoid it as much as possible. But I still won't keg most Belgian brews. I think that most would agree that Saison's especially benefit from being bottled in 750ml bottles with traditional champagne corks and lots of carbonation. You just can't get that flavor and carbonation profile out of a keg.

LStaff
06/01/05 02:28 PM  
Re: What are you doing that's
Don't know how out there it is but I have a smoked altbier that is lagering away right now. Used 70% Weyermann rauchmalt and it wasn't nearly as smoky as I wanted it to be so I had to (hangs head in embarrassment)"wet smoke" it with some liquid smoke. Only used 3/4 of a teaspoon to 5 gallons so it would add a phenolic edge to the already subtle smoke flavors. Bottling it next week, so I'll get a taste of it soon.

Big Rich
06/02/05 07:35 PM  
Re: What are you doing that's
I recently made a Mexican Farmhouse Ale - Cerveza de la Finca - using dried Jamaica flowers at flameout for color and flavor. The finished product still carries the rose color and has a slightly tart flavor. Here's more info - http://members.cox.net/xlperro/Cerveza_de_la_Finca.html
SebastianP
06/02/05 08:13 PM  
Re: What are you doing that's
Big Rich wrote<< Irecently made a Mexican Farmhouse Ale ... using dried Jamaica flowers>>I really like the idea of using Jamaica flowers, I wonder how this flavor would match with the WL Saison yeast. Hmm, I may have to try it.

How pronounced is the flavor from the Jamaica flowers? Would you add more or less if you were to brew this again, and why (ie you think a more assertive flavor would be good/bad)?

SteveG
06/03/05 06:48 AM  
Re: What are you doing that's
<<I have a smoked altbier that is lagering away right now.>>

You know, I tried doing one of those last year. Used WL Kolsch/Alt yeast. FIrst I did a sorta-Kolsch to work up the yeast, it came out tasting Belgiany, probably cause it fermented pretty hot (it was July). Ended up placing well at the SoB as a "abbey single"! But then the yeast was cooked, the next 2 beers were aweful, dumpers. I guess one is the max when a yeast starts loosing its mind. One of those was my smokey alt, so I have no idea what a beer like that would be like!

Big Rich
06/04/05 10:56 AM  
Re: What are you doing that's
SebastianP asked:

>>How pronounced is the flavor from the Jamaica flowers?<<

The flowers lend a mild tartness, with a bit of fruit punch tone, and great color. Flavors like the Jamaica drink you can buy at taco shops. I used 6 oz and feel that I could go up to 8 oz without making it too strong. The Cluster hops I used are a bit too wild for the brew.

I will be using these flowers in a Wit this summer with some sweet orange peel and either minimal corriander or just dropping it all together. The lighter/sweeter brew will complement the flowers better.

Aaron
06/09/05 04:34 PM  
Re: What are you doing that's
Well I wouldn't call it "out there", it's more like "really stupid". Me and friend brewed our annual super stout called 10W-40 on Sunday. Original gravity was 36P, 66 IBU. It's got 4#s molasses and 4#s candi sugar in it. Primary fermentation will be with an English ale strain. Secondary with be with WLP 099 (High Gravity). We've brewed it the last two years and acheived 14 and 17%abv. This year we're shooting for 25%abv, maximum by my calculations could be 30%abv but that probably won't happen. First two version are very drinkable but may need 5 years before all the edges smooth out.

Aaron

organicbrewr
07/14/05 10:47 PM  
Re: What are you doing that's
How did the cranberry saison turn out?

I was just thinking about it and found this thread doing research on who/how others have done it.

SebastianP
07/15/05 12:48 AM  
Re: What are you doing that's
Organicbrewr wrote<<How did the cranberry saison turn out?

I was just thinking about it and found this thread doing research on who/how others have done it.>>

Not too sure yet, I just transfered it to a tertiary after 2 weeks on the cranberries. The gravity is unusually high for the yeast strain (1.012), and I am wondering if the acidity has inhibited the yeast a bit. I will be checking this on this weekend or the next to see how ready it is to be bottled.

organicbrewr
07/15/05 06:07 PM  
Re: What are you doing that's
keep us posted, i'd be interested to hear if the fruit worked with the style.
SebastianP
07/31/05 09:45 PM  
Update to Cranberry Saison
Just as an FYI, I was a bit worried about the acidity from the cranberries in my Saison (to be specific there effect on the yeast), so I bottled two test bottles of this on Friday, if they carbonate well within the month I will bottle the rest, otherwise I will be resigned to putting this in a keg.

The beer has a definite cranberry-like acidity to it, and this beer should taste pretty good once carbonated and aged a bit.

 
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