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Author Replies
N8
01/27/06 12:53 PM  
Re: Yeast suggestions for a Trippel
I know what you mean. i've ran into some serious doubting thomas' before. To some extent they have a point about some sugars, but to lump all of them into one category and say sugar is sugar just doesn't jive with my line of thinking.
SteveG
01/30/06 11:54 AM  
Re: Yeast suggestions for a Trippel
Well, as it turns out yesterdays brew could not happen. The dubbel is still very active, it will be at least a couple more days before it will be approprite to rack. I have a brew belt, I thought it was burned out but I plugged it in Saturday and it warmed up. So I placed it around the carboy, got the temperature to the uppers 70s (by the next day) and the activity began to pick up. We'll be making the triple this coming weekend though no question. Nice to know I can warm it up a bit for fermenting too!
SteveG
02/06/06 12:56 PM  
Re: Yeast suggestions for a Trippel
Trippel away!

I didn't boil down enough, ended up with nearly a half gollon too much wort. Damn. 1068, not bad but making the right volume would have made thing work out better. It also may have come out a bit on the brown side, I added a lb of 17L crystal, maybe a mistake, and half the sugar was Lyles Golden syrup. Kicks the crap out of the light rock for taste but definately more darkening potential.

But the good news is the second coming of the Ardennes has been impressive, very vigorous fermention. Nice to see, I wish I worked it up a little for the dubbel.

SteveG
02/21/06 03:56 PM  
Re: Yeast suggestions for a Trippel
Well I had a little scare with the tripple, it fermented with great vigor for 2.5 days, enough to blow a decent amount of spooge into the blow off bucket. Then settled on a slower but consistant pace of 7ish blorps a minute. After a week I took a gravity reading and was stunned to see that after this level of activity it had only dropped to 1018. Wow, in a bad way.

But it kept going at that pace for a few more days and finally Sunday was down to a couple minutes between blorps. I bottled the dubbel last night and racked the tripple. I am delighted to say I might be giving you some competition Rich, sucker dropped to 1008 and was still a little active. Much better! Ardennes is not looking like the fasted yeast in the world, but it certainly does the job!

bill6beers
02/22/06 02:50 AM  
Re: Yeast suggestions for a Trippel
I've collected these reputed sources, if it helps...

Wyeast

1214 Abbey Ale Chimay.

1388 Belgian Strong Ale Duvel (Moortgart).

1762 Abbey Ale II Rochefort.

3463 Forbidden Fruit Hoegaarden ? Verboten Vruchte

3522 Belgian Ardennes La Chouffe

3787 Trappist High Gravity Westmalle.

3864 Canadian/Belgian Style Unibroue

3942 Belgian Wheat Beer "A small brewery in Essens, Belgium." De

Dolle?

3944 Belgian Witbier Hoegaarden/Celis White

Whitelabs

ID Name Source

WLP500 Trappist Ale Chimay

WLP510 Bastogne Belgian Ale Orval (primary strain--others are used)

WLP530 Abbey Ale Westmalle/Westvletern

WLP565 Belgian Saison I Yeast Dupont

I don't like the homebrews I've tried with the 1214/500 yeast. I rarely like commercial beer made with these. 1388 was good (malty), but took a long time to clear. Cold aging (32F for 2-4 weeks) helps. My faves for triples are 3942, 1762, and 3787.

Cisco
02/22/06 03:41 PM  
Re: Yeast suggestions for a Trippel
Over the last few years I have found WLP500 (Chimay) to be a wonderfull strain that imparts lots of spiciness, especially after bottling and aging. The trick to using a lot of the Belgian yeast strains is to ferment it warm. Mine ferments around 74 to 78. If you ferment too cool with these strains then you really limit them from blossoming to their full potential and they taste ordinary or at least not as flavorful as you were expecting. The most extreme fermentation temps were when I visited the DuPont brewery and got a private tour with the owner. Their fermentation tanks were in the upper 80s, very warm to the touch.
SteveG
02/22/06 03:50 PM  
Re: Yeast suggestions for a Trippel
Hi Cisco, I saw those tanks at DuPont too. I must have been there closer to pitching time, the thermometer was in the 90s. I agree with you comepletely, many people pull the plug on brewing in the summer. I think its a great time to make trappist styles. For these recent beer though I used a brew belt, both fermented in the low 80s.
Cisco
02/22/06 05:26 PM  
Re: Yeast suggestions for a Trippel
Actually a lot of my big brews end up going into the low 80s during the most vigorous part of the fermentation the first few days.
SteveG
02/23/06 09:25 AM  
Re: Yeast suggestions for a Trippel
Do you have good temperature control in the room where you ferment? I work out of my cellar, normally this is lager time for me. It stays below 60 down there until April. Wanted to get the dubbel and tripple done though, so the brewbelt came in handy.
Cisco
02/23/06 11:22 AM  
Re: Yeast suggestions for a Trippel
I ferment in a stainless steel 12 gallon conical fermenter (from morebeer.com) and it sits in my kitchen. My house has a heat pump for heat and air conditioning and I maintain 74 in the house. After 25 years of homebrewing I found that by using the right yeast strains that like warmer fermentations that I don't need a temperature controlled fermentation, the house air conditioning does the job. Also don't believe the proper yeast fermentation temps on the packages from Wyeast and White Labs, especially the Belgian strains. They are overly caustious and way too low for proper Belgian fermentation temps to extract the true character of the yeast.

I also do all my brewing from late October through the end of April because it's just to freakin hot here in Tucson to brew in my garage on a 3 tier 10 gallon setup with three propane burners going.

Matt
02/23/06 03:22 PM  
Re: Yeast suggestions for a Trippel
Cisco, do you mind sharing the temperature ranges that you would recommend for various yeasts? I assume that generally you pitch at one temperature and let it free rise?
Cisco
02/23/06 03:42 PM  
Re: Yeast suggestions for a Trippel
For most of the Belgian strains I ferment at my house temperature and let the fermentation temperature rise and fall by itself. However when the wort first enters the fermenter it's usually in the high 60s due to wort chilling. At the hieght of fermentation the temp is in the very low 80s. After that it cools down slowly to room temperature of 74. The only strain that I will purposely apply heat to is the Saison. I wrap a heater (Fermwrap) around the cone of the fermenter and try to keep the temp in the low 90s. That strain only seems to work best at what we would call extreme temps. You can get validation of some of this by reading Farmhouse Ales. I discovered warm fermenting by visiting Belgium twice and seeing as many breweries as I could (years before Farmhouse Ales was published). The Belgian strains don't seem to produce any of the nasty by products that normal American and British strains do. Also the Australian yeast strain (Coopers WLP009)is also meant to warm ferment, in the mid 80s - it's what Coopers does. It's a very nice all around yeast strain that loves high temps.
Matt
02/23/06 05:52 PM  
Re: Yeast suggestions for a Trippel
Are there any Belgian strains that have given you trouble or produced a character that you do not like at these high temperatures?

For what it's worth, I have had no trouble with WY3787 in the high 70s, and WY3522 in the high 80s.

Matt
02/23/06 05:59 PM  
Re: Yeast suggestions for a Trippel
BTW, anyone paying extraordinary attention might have noticed that I also started the "least fusely strain" thread, with a complaint that a tripel made with WY3787 was too fusely. Well, that beer has somehow (suddenly) rounded out into a much nicer beer. So when I say I had "no trouble" with 3787, I mean that after 3 months of aging the beer is good.

This surprised me since I don't think fusels age out? But ethyl acetate does, and perhaps I had mistaken a mix of high phenolics, some ethyl acetate, and maybe some fusels, for a full-blown fusel problem.

Cisco
02/23/06 06:04 PM  
Re: Yeast suggestions for a Trippel
No trouble at all with WLP400 Wit, WLP500 Trappist, WLP300 Hefe - you get more banana, WLP530 Abbey, WLP565 Saison, WLP570 Golden.
SteveG
02/23/06 10:06 PM  
Re: Yeast suggestions for a Trippel
Cisco - 25 years!! Wow, you even have Rich beat!

The realities of temperature on my end (up here in the northeast) parallel yours pretty closely, as do my observations of Belgian fermentions.

Glad to hear your 3787woes have worked themselves out. Hope to see you in some future swaps.

visit now
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