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Author Replies
MW
01/24/06 04:34 AM  
Rochefort Swap?
I've missed out on the Dark Candi Syrup swap...

But have just finished a Rochefort 10 clone. Anybody interested in starting a Rochefort swap.... ?

Here's my recipe:

Rochefort 10

O.G.: 1.094

5 gallon Batch:

10 # Belgian Pils

6 # Maris Otter Pale

1.5 # Belgian Aromatic

1.5 # Belgian CaraMunich

1.5# Belgian Cara Vienna

1 # Special B

1 # Corn

2 # Dark Rock Candi

1.75 Oz HORIZON HOPS 12.3% (60 Min)

2 Oz Vanguard 5.8% (30 Min)

2 Oz Hallertaur Herzberker 3.5% (15 Min)

5 Grams Toasted Corriander (5 Min)

Yeast: Wyeast 1762 Abbey II Starter (1/2 gallon)

Schedule:

135f 20 minutes

148 Degrees for 30 min

154 Degrees for 60 min

165 Degrees for 15 min

90 min boil

SteveG
01/24/06 09:41 AM  
Re: Rochefort Swap?
I'd be surprised if there were enough people who made such a specific clone willing to participate, but the triple swap I hope to do later could end up being a high gravity trappist style swap. Sometimes it pays to be flexible with these things! Hang onto 4 bottles...
Sean Paxton
01/24/06 11:30 AM  
Re: Rochefort Swap?
Sounds like a great recipe Mike Might have to brew it up. But, Ill let you save me a bottle too

Would be fun to do a Trappist swap. Anyone else interested?

I have a Westvleteren 8 and a Westmalle Trippel fermenting right now. What do others have fermenting or have ready?!?! I still am interested in a Westvleteren 12 swap.

Sean

N8
01/24/06 12:14 PM  
Re: Rochefort Swap?
I'm always up for a good swap.

The Trappist and/or Westy ones sound particularly good.

SteveG
01/24/06 01:02 PM  
Re: Rochefort Swap?
MW, toasted corriander? I've never heard of that, what does toasting do? Can its effect be detected in the fianl beer?
N8
01/24/06 01:37 PM  
Re: Rochefort Swap?
I would think that the toasting of the seeds would simply bring out the essential oils that give the spice it's flavor. Itwould be like toasting any spice in that it will intensify the aromatics and in my opinion would not need to use as much of that particular spice. Or if you really like the stronger flavor gives it an extra punch.
SteveG
01/24/06 02:14 PM  
Re: Rochefort Swap?
Man, I have never heard of toasting any spice! Granted, I'm not really a spicing kinda guy, I'm surprised though that toasting would yield more flavor than freshness. I've had so many beers that I thought were very overly dosed with corriander, maybe this is why.
Sean Paxton
01/24/06 03:00 PM  
Re: Rochefort Swap?
Steve,

I guess you dont like Indian food.

Usually, whole spices are fresher, as they do not have the surface area that pre-ground spices do; that cause them to go stale. But for whole spices, if you toasted them prior to use, you open up the pores and release some of the volatile oils that they contain, extracting more flavor and aroma. A cool trick from the food world that works well with the brewing process.

But, toasted and using too much of a spice are two different things. Toasting will add flavor, but if you over spice a beer, you over spice it. And the fine line is really fine, even with the Belgians.

In Brew Like a Monk, they say Rochefort uses a touch of Coriander to the 8/10. Not really enough to taste or smell, but to add a background flavor in the profile.

S

MW
01/24/06 03:40 PM  
Re: Rochefort Swap?
I guess I need to wake up earlier to get into the conversation.... ;-}

To comment on Steve's first thought - I was thinking more of a Rochefort 10 (type) swap, doesn't have to be the same recipe,just made within the same profile of Rochefort 10 or the like......

Chef Sean speaks the truth on Coriander..... Volatile oils!

I've heard of people doing the same with NUTS; Hazelnuts and the like....

On a different note.... Probably should be a different thread, but....

This summer, I'll be pulling out my Smoker and I'm considering doing a little experiment with small doses of smoked grains in some Belgian styles beers. I'll try different types of wood too..... Maybe some fruit woods.

This concept comes from a couple different sources:

1. A lecture Pete Slosberg gave on the History of Brown ales. He stated, '...at one time, every beer had a smokey flavor due to the use of open fires to heat the kettles..."

2. Hair of the Dog's Alan Sprints use of Peat Smoked Malt in his Adam beer.

Now, wait! Before everybody gets all excited! I'm not talking about making a Belgian Rausch, I'm talking about adding some smokey hints to a Belgian beer. I think a little Barrel Oak flavor would be very nice too...

Example:

Dubbel with a hint of smoked Walnut or Pecan wood.

Flanders Red with Oak wood and a hint of smoked Cherry or plum wood...

Any thoughts on this??

Joe Fleischman
01/24/06 03:45 PM  
Re: Rochefort Swap?
Count me in if you fella's decide to swap Roche 10's! I'll be making Herman H.'s clone (hopefully) this weekend or next.

N8
01/24/06 03:50 PM  
Re: Rochefort Swap?
MW

As far as your idea of adding a bit of smokeiness to your brews, I say give it a whirl. A couple of guys and I from the homebrew club tryed a "caveman" brew, or as it's called in the recent issue of Zymurgy "Midevel" brewing. We ended up having a handful of Alder IIRC smoked malt in the grist and it tuened out to be kind nice. It was just subtle enough to know it was there.

There are more details in the article we put together in the Zymurgy on page 24, I believe.

I think it can work very well if done with moderation.

MW
01/24/06 04:25 PM  
Re: Rochefort Swap?
OK Joe..... We'll see what happens....

N8 - I agree. I would be smoking 1/4 - 1/2 lb of Grain for 5-10 gallons. Just enough to add a hint of smoke flavor. I think the hint of different types of smoked wood with the Cask Oak would lend itself well to some darker belgian styles...

Maybe a little uncharted territory.... ;-}

SteveG
01/24/06 04:35 PM  
Re: Rochefort Swap?
<<Usually, whole spices are fresher, as they do not have the surface area that pre-ground spices do; that cause them to go stale.>>

Sean, on the occasions I've used corriander its been harvested and dried from the garden. I put the seeds in a plastics bag and hit them with a rolling pin. It doesn't grind them per say, it breaks them up much like a malt mill cracks grain. Not powdery but pieces. The aroma from them is enormous once cracked. I don't actually dislike corriander, I just think its a shame when its presence is so big it covers the character of the beer. I think that happens more with corriander than any other spice.

I think Rochefort is a good example of proper spicing cause you can't tell its there. I'm sure if it was omitted you could sense its absence but you might not be able to put your finger on what was missing.

<<Any thoughts on this??>>

MW, why not? Apparantly Belgian never did barrel aging in a way intended to drive the flavor of the beer until US importers started requesting it. Now there are a bunch of great examples, largely for the export market. Frankly I never understood why Belgians never got around to playing with a little smoke.

Regarding a Rochefort 10 swap, what the heck. If 4 people say yes I'd be delighted to orchestrate it. I would not be able to take part, but thats OK. So far we have MW and JoeF able with Sean willing to jump in. I would imagine some aging would be necessary so it might make more sense for people who already have one on hand. Thoughts on that? Are there more than two R10s out there?

MW
01/24/06 04:45 PM  
Re: Rochefort Swap?
Smoke

>>MW, why not? Apparantly Belgian never did barrel aging in a way intended to drive the flavor of the beer until US importers started requesting it. Now there are a bunch of great examples, largely for the export market. Frankly I never understood why Belgians never got around to playing with a little smoke.>>

A little intagration never hurts anyone.... ;-}

>>Regarding a Rochefort 10 swap, what the heck. If 4 people say yes I'd be delighted to orchestrate it. I would not be able to take part, but thats OK. So far we have MW and JoeF able with Sean willing to jump in. I would imagine some aging would be necessary so it might make more sense for people who already have one on hand. Thoughts on that?>>

Maybe we can let the thought ride a week or so.... See what happens....

<<Are there more than two R10s out there?>>

Actually, I have a buddy here in Portland who has a Rochefort 10 fermenting, he's interested.... Getting closer..

SteveG
01/24/06 04:45 PM  
Re: Rochefort Swap?
Hey MW, maybe could could keep an eye on developments here for me. Record the names of those who are in, when you have what you feel is enough (I like 4 or 5 but whatever works for you) let me know. I'll get the thing going...
Markm
01/24/06 05:02 PM  
Re: Rochefort Swap?
I have a roch 8 in the bottle carbing now that I would swap with those interested. MW I plan on having yours but those interested let me know and I will make arrangements. My recipe was very similar to MW's I got mine from tasybrew.com under Rochefort clone thread for those interested in looking at it.
Sean Paxton
01/24/06 05:28 PM  
Re: Rochefort Swap?
Well, Ive brewed 23 gallons of beer already this year! Why not make the Westvleteren 12 a Rochefort 10 instead! For you Mike! Im in. I think I might take your recipe and replace the sugar with the Dark Candi Sugar Syrup and change the hops Give me a week or two to make it.

Like the idea of smoke. We spoke about maybe smoking grains with different woods, not the normal peat smoked, but Cherry or Maple. Would be an interesting flavor. Im big onto smoked salts as a finishing salt on steak, wild boar, and other game meats. I have a Pecan Smoked Black Salt and a Hickory Smoked Salt that really give a nice finishing to a dish. Take the same idea with a brew and with .25-.5 of a pound you could get a really nice little hint of something you might not be able to put a finger on Yet would give a special touch.

Now, cold smoke or hot smoke the grain? And what grain? What wood for that grain? Cherry, Apple, Pecan, Oak soaked in Jack Daniels, Maple? What about smoking a Caramunich with Cherry? Use that in a Belgium Strong Dark (Chimay Reserve)

S

MW
01/24/06 06:33 PM  
Re: Rochefort Swap?
Steve - I'll monitor the Rochefort swap and let you know what's happening.....

Mark - That's for hooking up.....!

Sean - Smoking the Crystals is an option as well... It may tweak the flavor profile of the grain in a good way...

I can see Aromatic with Applewood...Caramunich with Pecanwood..... Special B with Plumwood..... Caravienna with Cherrywood..... Chocoalte malt with Maplewood... Just random thoughts...... Of course soaking Oak barrel wood in Bourbon, Scotch, Rum or even a maderia would be interesting...

SOunds like there is some experimentation to be had... ;-}

MW
01/25/06 03:37 PM  
Re: Rochefort Swap?
Go to new thread..... HB'd Rochefort 10 Swap!
Jamsona
08/10/07 02:40 AM  
Hello, i new
Hello friends! i new on your forum!

see ya:))

 
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