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Author Replies
Al B
03/10/06 11:32 AM  
Fantome's Black Ghost
holy moly - this is some concoction!

This black spooky saison thing is delicious - Any clue on what spices may be added?!?!

I think I caught some black pepper, maybe licorice root. I need to brew something like this for Halloween this year!

Al

Brendan
03/12/06 02:41 PM  
Re: Fantome's Black Ghost
I rememeber fondly noticing some Brett-funk going on.- I'd also love to have a better idea of the spicing.
Al B
03/13/06 08:54 AM  
Re: Fantome's Black Ghost
I recultured from the bottle - there's some Lactobacilli + regular yeast.....I'm sure some bottles get some funk though, but I haven't recovered any Brett yet.

I've seen some reviews on tastings - its all over the place on the spices - not surprisingly.

SteveG
03/13/06 10:48 AM  
Re: Fantome's Black Ghost
My impression is that Black Ghost is not a super consistant beer. There have been years when even the importer said it was horrible, other times its great. Its the risk you take making wild ales! You should get to Fantome some day Al, what a hoot. Normally I might say a thread on a Belgian beer might be more at home on the regular BBB, but Black Ghost comes from a set up not that far beyond what some of us have in our basements! Dany has LaChouffes first brewing hardware, it is the closest to a homebrew set up I have ever seen in a commercial brewery. I think inconsistance is part of the price you pay for that kind of facility.
Cisco
03/13/06 10:49 AM  
Re: Fantome's Black Ghost
Just a word of caution on Danny's beers. There is definitley lacto in his beers. If you let them age for a year or two they will be taken over by lacto, not a good flavor profile when this happens. His beers should be drunk fresh and not aged very long in order to enjoy.

I spent an entire day with Danny in 2001. He was making the xmas beer. By the time I got there in the early morning he had finished the boil and was transferring the mash downstairs to the lauter tun. He hides the spices and fruit juices that he uses, I looked all over the two story farmhouse brewery trying to find some of his secrets. Eventually I gave up and tended the store front bar he has on one side of the brewery. He said to drink anything I wanted all day long. There's nothing as good as Fantome on tap at the brewery! Danny doesn't drink during the day, he just keeps making and drinking straight espresso all day. He's quite a character.

Al B
03/13/06 11:38 AM  
Re: Fantome's Black Ghost
Thanks for stories - I'll throw some wacky stuff (eye of newt?) in when I formulate/brew this spooky style (Heavyweight brewery, NJ has a black saison thats quite lactic, but pleasant too).

Yes, there certaintly is Lacto (I just saw it under the microscope!) You know, this reminds me of a Simpson's episode.........when Homer makes up the Flaming Moe by accidently adding kids cough syrup to the drink (fire made it gooood).

SteveG
03/13/06 12:08 PM  
Man, what a beer name!
I have no idea what would be in it, but some day I have to make a keg of "Flaming Moe"! Maybe a Oktoberfest with smoked chilis.

BTW Al, speaking of black saisons the Rodenblack has gone though quite the change. A little time, a little blending, it is a far more interesting beer than the infant you tasted way back when.

Al B
03/13/06 12:19 PM  
Re: Fantome's Black Ghost
Well then, if there's any left whenever I git up there, I'll bring my sample cup. Maybe I bring some Biere de Mars I just kegged.

SteveG
03/13/06 02:15 PM  
Re: Fantome's Black Ghost
Remember, beer psycho parties are homebrew friendly! I'll be sure some is left for the 22nd. Steve
Al B
10/13/06 02:22 PM  
Re: Fantome's Black Ghost
Recultured the dregs of another Black Ghost on some agar plates. Well, now I have found 2 different types of Brett, maybe a third along with Lactobacilli and 1-2 different Saccharomyces. The Bretts were in low numbers, but definetely there.

I'm alittle behind schedule on brewing a spooky saison - but I got plenty of Fantome bugs to use now.

Mykel Obvious
10/13/06 06:00 PM  
Re: Fantome's Black Ghost
Al, make sure you share your recipe with us... the Saison I brewed 2 weeks ago came out on the copper side (I over shot orange by a bit anyway), and it made me think of doing a Black Saison in the future... I don't spice beers much, as I'm not always a fan of the flavors many people chose, but maybe some grains of paradise and a few other things might be interesting in a Black Saison...

I may have to talk you into sending me some good cultures as I can't even get Fantome here!!

later,

mikey

ErikH
10/14/06 11:46 AM  
Re: Fantome's Black Ghost
Al, it's good to have definitive proof of the lacto - I made a starter from a bottle of the regular Fantome last year in the interest of adding "a little funk" to an otherwise straightforward Saison attempt. Imagine my surprise when the lactic twang completely took over! It has mellowed a lot but is still only describable as a sour blonde ale.

And I can second the impressions of Dany from my visit this past summer. I didn't see him brew on that trip, but wow, talk about a 'rustic' set-up. . . I had a conversation with one of the Shelton bros. at Spuyten Duyvil one night and the consensus seems to be that there is little record-keeping or measuring going on there, which I'm sure amplifies the inconsistency.

But I too am still under the spell of the Spook! I guess it's like why people go back to gambling even though statistically speaking they are sure to lose some. . . plus, now that the nearby gnomes have gone to the Devil, he's the only wild woodland critter still at large in the Ardennes, no?

Al B
10/17/06 09:25 AM  
Re: Fantome's Black Ghost
For spice(s) on the Black Ghost, I am a bit more confident that black pepper is in there, but not as much as the new Dark White. The Dark White is exploding w/ pepper (way too much for me).

I believe I have two distinct Bretts and two distinct Saccharomyces (and of course the lactobacilli). Next move is to grow up the Saccharomyces separately - interesting, one the Sacch. is very much the Saison dominant aroma, the other more phenolic, very different.

TedJ
10/17/06 12:47 PM  
Re: Fantome's Black Ghost
So Al, is the Wyeast Biere de Garde Wheat yeast (3725) one or both of the yeasts you isolated? The pheno one? Is the brett in 3725?
Al B
10/17/06 01:12 PM  
Re: Fantome's Black Ghost
Ted -

I haven't used that WY Biere de Garde yet. Good Question. I'm going to taste starter cultures I think.

I doubt very much that any Bretts are 3725.

I been thinking after I brew a batch (or 2) of Saison/black Saison using Fantome's bugs that a swap could be proposed - and hope someone supplies me WY biere de garde to compare!

Al B
11/04/06 09:28 PM  
Re: Fantome's Black Ghost
I have received WY Biere de Garde (origin SOY, Belgium). There are no Bretts in there that I can tell. Also. the one Sacch I have cultured must be a bottling strain. I think Dany responded that he adds one in an earlier archive thread. The aroma/taste reminds me of WL Belgian Golden ale - really distinctive.....sorta bubblegum.

Also, one brett I isolated looks and smells very similiar to WY lambicus. I'm making this Black ghost a personal endeavor.

Al B ghost

Al B
12/19/06 01:41 PM  
Re: Fantome's Black Ghost
Well, its off. A split batch from my "white Saison" I then added carafa + bedittered Black malts and other spices. After a Primary ferm. w/ WY biere de Guard as in the white version- although its runnin' behind the white (didn't pitch as much slurry, ran alittle low).

Secondary - I added a recultured Fantome Brett and a pinch of B. clausenii at fg of 1010.......starting to pick up steam now - hoping to get a bit lower.

Ross Lunato
12/19/06 06:15 PM  
Re: Fantome's Black Ghost
Awesome Al!! I can't wait to hear how it turns out!!
 
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