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Al B
09/08/06 01:42 PM  
Brett lambicus - straight up
After brewin' 2 interesting batches of 100% B. clausenii, I'm curious of the effects of 100% fermentation with WY B. lambicus. Description from Wyeast has a pie-cherry flavor along with the typical Brett character. This pie-cherry flavor description intrigues me. I haven't really picked up on this during lambic brewing in the past........

Anyone tested the bug without its lambic blend buddy, B. bruxellensis as a sole fermenter?

Al B lambicus

09/08/06 02:07 PM  
Re: Brett lambicus - straight up
In '95 I did my first lambic the old fashioned way, with the obvious bugs from WYeast. Last bottle was entered in the Belgian only competition at the 2005 SoB. Lots of cherry pie comments. Of course, it was a kreik that used local sour cherries! But maybe that is not the full explaination.
09/08/06 03:15 PM  
Re: Brett lambicus - straight up
I can't say that I've used strictly just the B. Lambicus, but it is in the recent concoction I have going. It's got just as much Lambicus as Brux in it. It does, however, have some lactobaccilus in it as well. But, I will say that after tasting it yesterday, that I did not detect any cherry at all. It was fun to look at. Quite the ugly duckling.


Perhaps, I'll try a similar brew next and use just the brett Lambicus. Now, would the brett character in the B. Lambiccus be just as soft and subtle as other B. Brux beers I've tried? Would it not, then, benefit from a small touch of Lacto to accentuate the sourness of the cherry notes that are supposed to be in the Lambiccus strain? Sort of like adding a tsp of salt to bring out flavors in food.

09/08/06 05:48 PM  
Re: Brett lambicus - straight up
I've done an all Brett Brux brew. It was half of a 10 gallon Lambic batch. The other half recieved all of the bugs. I plan on blending before bottling. Some will also stick around for future Lambic blending. The Brux half is fairly sweet and fruity (more tropical than cherry) right now (3 months old).
Mykel Obvious
09/08/06 07:15 PM  
Re: Brett lambicus - straight up
I'm planning on a series of Brett only batches over the next few months... making a similar beer each time and using WLP645 Brettanomyces claussenii, WLP650 Brettanomyces bruxellensis and WLP653 Brettanomyces lambicus once each in that order... after all 3 are done, it will be nice to do a side by side and see just how different each brew tastes...

I'm looking at the following recipe and would like input from everyone:

Brett Only Pale Ale:

5.5 gallons

11 lbs. Belgian Pale malt

.5 lbs. Aromatic Malt

.5 lbs. Munich Malt

1 lb Dark Moist Candi Sugar

2 oz Styrian Golding 4.6 AAU @ 60 minutes

expected OG 1.062 (the lowest OG I've brewed in MONTHS LOL)

SRM 9ish

IBUs 39ish

I'm trying to figure out a mash temp to use as I'm not sure how dry to make this... would love some thoughts on what character dry vs. sweeter/maltier version would do with Brett as the only yeast... maybe do a 152-154 F single infusion to split the difference?? Thoughts on that??

Also, at what temp should I run fermentation? I'm thinking 72-75 F to let it have a chance to put out some interesting flavors, but that might be overboard??

This is a slightly long term project as I only get to brew once every 2 weeks if nothing goes wrong and I still have some more normal Belgian brews planned for this same time... maybe brew one of these every other brew-day and have them all done in 3 months or so...

Anyway, all thoughts and comments on this subject are appreciated



Al B
09/08/06 10:19 PM  
Re: Brett lambicus - straight up
WOW Nate, funky pellicle growth. The clausenii strain is more of a slime layer (< 6months). Not sure on the lambicus "character" by itself and although some acid accentuates cherry notes (hmmm), I believe Bretts in general will produce enough acid by itself (at least w/ me + the clausenii). I think I'll take pH readings on the primary fermentation. Add Lactobaciili if necessary later. Dunno how it plays out, must pursue.

Mykel - I'm not sure if any particular grain bill is a big deal, except the dextrins produced vs aging (I'm saying that Bretts in general would eat simple sugars first, bigger complex dextrins slowly over time).

However, the fermentation temps. do interest me on the brett front. I'm thinkin' of doing a trial batch - one at lager temps., the other in the 70-75 range and compare.

As far as, the mash temp. - perhaps Steve can add to it -

he just did his BW w/ calusenii I gave him. Its super early, but I ddidn't get alot of sourness yet (surprised me). BTW, I'm drinkin' some Rare Vos from Ommegang right now, I'm rambling ......

Now that i think of it, I wonder how much flavor from the dk. moist belgian suagr would be demolished by the bretts?

woops, glass is empty.

Al B back

Al B
10/31/06 07:44 AM  
Re: Brett lambicus - straight up
Just received Wyeast strain of B. lambicus. After opening the packet, there was a very nice pie-cherry aroma as described.

A starter is being prepared. What to do, what to do.............maybe something with some dark grains? Hmmm, dark grains + bourbon oak chips? Dang. I need more coffee, think think.

10/31/06 06:25 PM  
Re: Brett lambicus - straight up
Hey Al!

Would you mind reviewing briefly your starter procedure recommendations for Brett? Length of time and any stepping up in volume? My recollection is that oxygen causes it to generate lactic/acetic acid, but that you should aerated the starter well to encourage growth, but then not the main fermenter after you pitch, yes?

Also, won't the high temperatures mentioned here encourage sourness also? Does it make any difference if this is the sole fermentation agent or secondary after Sacch. C?

Please pardon my brett-newbiness . . .

Al B
10/31/06 08:33 PM  
Re: Brett lambicus - straight up
Well, I'm alittle new with this too.....

Oxygen is good for Brett growth, yep, just like Sacch. yeasts (not essential, but certainly for a quick healthy starter at high population). The Bretts do seem to produce acetic acid with O2. Some lactic under anaerobic conditions (but not like Pediococcus). I used calcium carbonate to buffer the starter 0.5% or so. Stepping up the volumes definately helps, otherwise you'll need many small starters. 2 weeks did the job for me to obtain ~400ml slurry. I can add more details if you like (as in the Brett symposium).

I plan to use a high population for the wort with no extra O2 of the wort. I anticipate a more dry, less acidic brew -although the two I made so far are not obtrusive in sourness.

I know that Sebastians brew was incubated over 80F and there was little tartness, so I would say to this point that perhaps temperatures may affect other species differently. But you know, higher temps have less dissolved O2 as do high gravities.

As far as a sole fermenter vs secondary helper, one thing stands out that it would take a few months at least to develop their characteristics - coming from complex dextrins and sediment stuff.

I plan to try the lambicus as a sole fermenter next and perhaps another clausennii. I also might do one with recultured Fantome bretts as a third and compare!

Al bruxellensis

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