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Author Replies
Mykel Obvious
09/15/06 07:11 PM  
Saison with Brett and Brett Only questions
Ok, so I am planning on brewing a Saison this Sunday and my first Brett only brew in a week or two... I'd like to add a Brett strain to my Saison in secondary and, as I only have one of each of the White Labs Brett strains on hand (and my guy won't order yeast for another month at the minimum)I was wondering what combination should I go with?

Should I add the WLP645 Brettanomyces claussenii to the Saison, or save that for my first Brett Only brew?? Would that be "enough" Brett character in a Saison or might that be a bit low? (My last Saison which I added Lactobacillus to came out nice, a bit low on the sour character IMO... I'm planning on doing one with Pediococcus at some point, but I have none on hand right now... I just want to see what Brett does to it I guess LOL)

I could go balls out and do my Brett Only with WLP653 Brettanomyces lambicus and then work backwards to LESS flavorful Brett strains... or I could add the WLP650 Brettanomyces bruxellensis to the Saison and work up from the B. claussenii in the Brett Onlys... arrgh... if there were only 2 strains, I'd just toss a coin LOL

Anyway, I'd like to hear everyones thoughts on what would be the best mix and why...

thanks folks,

mikey

Oh, and I think I'll call the Saison: "I Brett the Farm" :-D

Al B
09/18/06 09:42 AM  
Re: Saison with Brett and Brett Only questions
For a Saison, it might be a matter of personal preferance.

Personally, I can't get enough of B. clausenii.

The clausenii doesn't have the pronounced "horse hair" or any smokeyness, but the fruitiness is mind-boggling. Can't say about the WL lambicus/brux as they are actually different than the Wyeast strains, they say.

I would think that a vial of brett in the secondary will do the job.

I plan on using clausenii in the next saison/black saison.

Hell, I'll let infect everything.......Mwa HAHAHAHAHAHA (evil laugh)

Al Bruxellensis

TedJ
09/18/06 01:23 PM  
Re: Saison with Brett and Brett Only questions
Al

The B. clausenii "no horse/more fruit" sounds like what I'm looking for to add that extra dimension to some beers. I'll give it a try, but in the mean time, can you name any commercial beers that have this no horse/more fruit character from B. clausenii?

Al B
09/18/06 01:56 PM  
Re: Saison with Brett and Brett Only questions
Tough to be certain with the fruity belgian brews. Possibly Fantome - although it is not consistent in the brews. I may have some Brett in recultured Fantome Black Ghost/Saisons - I'm in the process of isolating it (and no idea if this is related to clausenii either).

The clausenii/anamolus strain is said to have infected many English stoudts and English traditional IPAs.

I have to say, the clausenii strain has a most interesting pinapple aroma and flavor (and acidity).

Mykel Obvious
09/19/06 12:03 AM  
Re: Saison with Brett and Brett Only questions
Hey Al,

Well, the beer didn't get made this weekend, life got in the way again ::sigh::... gonna try again next Saturday...

I think I will add the B. claussenii to the Saison and try the B. bruxellensis in my first Brett Only... I think the fruity flavors may mix nicely with the Saison yeast... Of course over time I'll probably end up brewing a Saison with every Brett I can get my hands on and combos of Lactobacillus and Pediococcus as well... I'm searching for the perfect combination of tart, tangy and interesting flavors (I don't spice my Saisons, want all the flavor from yeasts and bacteria)

I guess I need to expand my Brett experiments to include the Wyeast strains as well... just to make sure I get the best flavors I can...

And I agree with ya Al, what good is it if ya can't add a little bacteria to it LOL... I can't wait till January when I can get the WLP510 yeast and do an Orval clone when the B. bruxellensis(I'm gonna have to buy 3 or 4 vials of the 510!!)... and I need to find time to brew another Flanders Red as well... I'm just gonna have to quit my job and brew more often!!!

;-)

later,

mikey

Mykel Obvious - Head Bottle Washer What Is In Charge Of Caps for Old Coyote's Bad Mojo Biohazard Brewery

Al B
09/20/06 10:22 AM  
Re: Saison with Brett and Brett Only questions
crud. I was hoping to hear another beer from hell story (just kidding)

This weekend I unleash my 100% Brett clausenii ("Fungus Brett-amongus") on 30-40 "guests" .

MilkaDE
11/04/06 05:15 AM  
Asking How to
Hey all

Does anybody know how to switch off the data execution prevention feature in Windows XP?

matt dinges
11/04/06 09:57 AM  
Re: Saison with Brett and Brett Only questions
My first 100% Brett brew I did on Oct. 30. I used B. Clausenii from WL. I had made a 1L starter for it about 2 weeks earlier which showed no signs of activity after about 2-3 days at ambient house temp (~64*F), so I moved it to the top of my water heater and it got fired up...by pitching time it had a nice pellicle(sp?) in the starter.

Wort was split between B.C. and Wyeast BdG yeast. Here's the recipe:

30-Oct-2006 Winter sunshine

A ProMash Brewing Session Report

--------------------------------

Brewing Date: Monday October 30, 2006

Head Brewer:

Asst Brewer:

Recipe: Winter sunshine

Recipe Specifics

----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 13.00 Wort Size (Gal): 13.00

Total Grain (Lbs): 24.75

Anticipated OG: 1.054 Plato: 13.23

Anticipated SRM: 4.8

Anticipated IBU: 50.5

Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %

Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Actual OG: 1.055 Plato: 13.57

Actual FG: 1.012 Plato: 3.07

Alc by Weight: 4.43 by Volume: 5.67 From Measured Gravities.

ADF: 77.4 RDF 64.4 Apparent & Real Degree of Fermentation.

Actual Mash System Efficiency: 71 %

Anticipated Points From Mash: 53.55

Actual Points From Mash: 50.89

Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

76.8 19.00 lbs. Pilsener Germany 1.038 2

16.2 4.00 lbs. Castle Munich Belgium 1.037 5

4.0 1.00 lbs. Flaked Barley America 1.032 2

2.0 0.50 lbs. Aromatic Malt Belgium 1.036 22

1.0 0.25 lbs. Melanoidin Malt 1.033 35

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

7.00 oz. Bramling Cross Pellet 5.50 50.5 First WH

Yeast

-----

Mash Schedule

-------------

Mash Name:

Total Grain Lbs: 24.75

Total Water Qts: 33.20 - Before Additional Infusions

Total Water Gal: 8.30 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.00

Grain Temp: 60 F

Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse

Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sacc 5 120 148 148 Infuse 161 33.20 1.34

Total Water Qts: 33.20 - After Additional Infusions

Total Water Gal: 8.30 - After Additional Infusions

Total Mash Volume Gal: 10.28 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.

All infusion amounts are in Quarts.

All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.

Fermentation seems to be going on well...I let it go for the first couple days around 66*F, then slowly bumped it up to 70*f for a day or so and now its at about 75*F which is where I'll leave it for about another week I think. Any thoughts on ferment temps for this B.C. strain?

Cheers

matt

Al B
11/04/06 09:05 PM  
Re: Saison with Brett and Brett Only questions
Bc strain is said to be anywhere from 60-75F I think. Yeah, big range. Until we all compile data, I'm not sure what else to recommend on temperature.
banjolawyer
11/08/06 12:54 PM  
Re: Saison with Brett and Brett Only questions
I've been contemplating doing a split batch of saison:

one fermented with WL 565-Belgian Saison I at around 90F, and the other with WL 645-Brettanomyces claussenii (primarily due to Al's comments about how good it is).

Then, I was thinking I could blend to taste.

What do you think about this idea generally?

Also, any reasonable estimate about how long I should let the batch with WL645 go? what temp should it ferment? and how much of a starter to make for a 6 gal. batch?

Thanks!

SteveG
11/08/06 03:09 PM  
Re: Saison with Brett and Brett Only questions
As far as the blending thing, its been done for years and great breweries continue that practice today. I think its most effective when it happens after fermentation agents are stalled, but blending is a great thing, I think you should try it. No direct experience with WL 565 though I'm afraid.
 
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