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DBear
12/11/06 02:44 PM  
Da wife would like a Delirium Tremens
Hi All,

My wife who bought me the homebrewing kit as a Christmas present last year (what a gal!) has requested a Delirium Tremens-like brew. Below is a recipe I found (maybe from here).

Please provide any comment or suggestions. I have never gone this big (9% ABV) and might knock it down. Is 1214 the right yeast? Also, what flavoring will the grains proide?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Delirium Tremens v1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

General

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Category: Belgian Strong Ale

Subcat: Belgian Gold Strong Ale

Recipe Type: Extract

Batch Size: 5 gal.

Volume Boiled: 2.5 gal.

Mash Efficiency: 72 %

Total Grain/Extract: 9.92 lbs.

Total Hops: 2.0 oz.

Calories (12 fl. oz.): 328.7

Ingredients

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

.43 lbs. German Light Munich

.31 lbs. Belgian Biscuit

.18 lbs. Belgian Aromatic

7 lbs. Dry Extra Light Extract

1 lbs. Candi Sugar Clear

1 lbs. Lyle's Golden Syrup

1.3 oz. Styrian Goldings (Pellets, 6.00 %AA) boiled 60 minutes.

0.25 oz. Styrian Goldings (Pellets, 6.00 %AA) boiled 15 minutes.

0.25 oz. Czech Saaz (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 15 minutes.

0.25 oz. Czech Saaz (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 4 minutes.

Yeast: WYeast 1214 Belgian Abbey

Notes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Steep grains 30min @150F (1.1qt/lb)

- Sparge @ 150F (1/2gal/lb)

- .25tsp grains of paradise @ 4min

- Whrilfloc @ 15min

Vital Statistics

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Original Gravity: 1.082

Terminal Gravity: 1.012

Color: 6.56 SRM

Bitterness: 26.2 IBU

Alcohol (%volume): 9.2 %

--

Results prepared by BeerTools.com

ErikH
12/11/06 04:47 PM  
Re: Da wife would like a Delirium Tremens
Hi DB -

The actual ABV for the commercial Delerium Tremens is 8.5%, so a little bit lower. Funny, I used to think this was like a 9.5-10% beer and was surprised when I actually read a label one day.

I would say this recipe is pretty much maxed out on sugar content - though appropriately - at 20% of the fermentables. Might tweak that back a bit if you want to reduce the OG slightly (1.5 lbs?)

N8
12/11/06 05:59 PM  
Re: Da wife would like a Delirium Tremens
Here is the DT I've made several times that is pretty close to the real thing. It's all grain, but it can easily be converted to extract. Just use extra light extract to bring it up to the gravity you want with 15% sugar. You don't need all the other grains or Lyles syrup. The spices give it the flavors yuo're looking for. I cultured up the yeast out of a bottle of DT to ferment this with which will make a big contribution to the flavor profile you want. But if you're not comfortable with that, I would go with WY3522, but that's a personal choice.

Delerium Tremens

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics

----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00

Total Grain (Lbs): 11.70

Anticipated OG: 1.071 Plato: 17.36

Anticipated SRM: 15.3

Anticipated IBU: 25.5

Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %

Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

85.0 9.95 lbs. Pilsener Belgium 1.037 2

15.0 1.75 lbs. Candi Sugar (amber) Generic 1.046 75

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.10 oz. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.25 22.0 75 min.

0.50 oz. Czech Saaz Pellet 2.50 3.5 30 min.

Extras

Amount Name Type Time

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

0.40 Oz Corriander Seed Spice 10 Min.(boil)

0.14 Oz Ginger Root Spice 10 Min.(boil)

0.14 Oz Grains of Paradise Spice 10 Min.(boil)

DBear
12/11/06 07:51 PM  
Re: Da wife would like a Delirium Tremens
ErikH,

Thanks for picking up the sugar %. I couldn't remember if the rule of thumb for sugars was 15 or 20%.

N8

Thanks for the recipe. Simple is better. This will be my fifth batch and my lesson will be how to handle big alc. and the characteristics of belgian yeasts. What would be good ferment schedule/temp for the DT? Primary, secondary, bottle condition.

Also, this looks like a recipe that might be a good first AG project. I have a nice 9gal kettle and am looking to get the additional AG equiptment. Probably be ready for the spring but will get a few more stove top extact batches in.

Cheers

N8
12/11/06 09:19 PM  
Re: Da wife would like a Delirium Tremens
Fermentation for most Belgian style beers are in the warmer side of fermentation. I typically start around 65F then ramp it up to 75F over a week, then let it stay at the warmer temps until it's finished fermenting. You could easily let this ferment at room temp and have a fine beer. I, personally, hardly ever use a secondary. Let it hang out in the primary for a month or so then rack into keg or bottling bucket. Bottle conditioning has it's pluses, but I usually go with keg for ease.
DBear
12/12/06 08:55 AM  
Re: Da wife would like a Delirium Tremens
Thank N8

I am looking to use an light LME (not sure if there is a DME) that is pilsner based to keep as close to your pilsner base grain profile. I'll post the recipe back to you.

Does the amber sugar give you a different flavor profile than the clear? I was thinking of using the clear instead of amber to get closer the style color. I'm trying to go for style only to see how ingredients play into a certain profile. I'm not a Stylenista!!! :)

Cheers!

DBear
12/13/06 07:57 AM  
Re: Da wife would like a Delirium Tremens
N8,

Here is an extract version of your DT AG. Briess & Weyermann have Pils based DME/LME that i may sub for the Muntons.

Since I'm only doing a 2.5 gal boil (my stove won't push 3 gal) I will be doing a late extract addition- 1/2 extract & sugar up front, rest of the extract at 15 min left. If I don't I'm afraid the wort will be too thick. I will need to compensate for hop utilization because of the late extract.

Primary ferm of 4 wks. and will bottle condition 3-4wks for first taste and see how it will age out.

Thanks again for your help. Da Wife will be pleased.

Delerium Trem (extract version)

-------------------------

General

-------------------

Category: Belgian Strong Ale

Subcategory: Belgian Golden Strong Ale

Recipe Type: Extract

Batch Size: 5 gal.

Volume Boiled: 2.5 gal.

Mash Efficiency: 30 %

Total Grain/Extract: 8.10 lbs.

Total Hops: 1.9 oz.

Calories (12 fl. oz.): 284.7

Ingredients

-----------------

7 lbs. Muntons Dry Extra Light (85.9%)

1.1 lbs. Candi Sugar Clear (14.1%)

1.4 oz. Styrian Goldings (Pellets, 4.8 %AA) boiled 60 minutes.

0.50 oz. Czech Saaz (Pellets, 3.6 %AA) boiled 30 minutes.

Yeast: WYeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes

Notes

-----------------------

- 0.40 Oz Corriander Seed Spice @ 10 min

- 0.14 Oz Ginger Root Spice @ 10 min

- 0.14 Oz Grains of Paradise @ 10 min

Vital Statistics

-------------------------

Original Gravity: 1.071

Terminal Gravity: 1.011

Color: 5.01 SRM

Bitterness: 25.3 IBU

Alcohol (%volume): 8.0 %

--

Results prepared by BeerTools.com

N8
12/13/06 10:46 AM  
Re: Da wife would like a Delirium Tremens
The late extract addition is a good idea, it will help keep the caramelization to a minimum. I would also advise to add the sugar at the end as well. Other than that, I think you'll be doing pretty well. Just have to keep us updated on how it goes.

grove
12/13/06 02:36 PM  
Re: Da wife would like a Delirium Tremens
N8,

Did you use dried ground ginger root or fresh ginger root?

I've never tried to make a Delirum Tremens clone myself, but I think I see where you're going with the ginger. How much of the ginger does actually get through? The beers I've tried that have used the 3522 have also had much of the same characteristics, so I think I'll base my own attempt at a clone on yours. Thanks.

N8
12/13/06 04:37 PM  
Re: Da wife would like a Delirium Tremens
I use dried. Fresh ginger, as loverly as it is, is way too unpredictable in use with a beer.

My thoughts on using any spice in a beer is that you want to be able to detect it, but not quite know what it is.

grove
12/14/06 03:15 PM  
Re: Da wife would like a Delirium Tremens
I didn't know that it was unpredicatable, but I'll have that in mind if/when I give it a try myself.

Do you find that the fresh and dried ginger give the same kind of flavour to the beer, or are they different?

N8
12/14/06 10:45 PM  
Re: Da wife would like a Delirium Tremens
Same flavor for the most part, just the fresh was very intense. I didn't like it.

YMMV

Dave I
12/15/06 12:54 PM  
Re: Da wife would like a Delirium Tremens
"Same flavor for the most part, just the fresh was very intense. I didn't like it."

I would like to second that. The fresh ginger I uses (and it was not much) was very intense. It either grew on me, mellowed, or (my theory) both, but initially it was very ginger-dominant. Once it mellowed, my wife and I were both pretty pleased with it, and she is not much of a beer drinker. Man, I love that beer.

-Cheers

grove
12/19/06 03:43 PM  
Re: Da wife would like a Delirium Tremens
Thanks, that's very useful. Have you tried candied, preserved or pickled ginger? If so, how does that compare?

DBear
03/05/07 01:19 PM  
Re: Da wife would like a Delirium Tremens - Update
Bros/Broettes - Especially N8

I just bottled an all extract version of a Delirium Tremens recipe insprired by N8 - OG 1.072, FG 1.010 - highest avb (8%) i've ever done.

4wks primary piched WLP570 at 66F went to 76F within week, averaged 74F for 3 wks. Tasted when racked to 2ndary nice dry, slight fruity taste but definate alchohol taste. 2ndary at 31F for 7 days (cranked down the frig but couldn't control the temps) pulled from fridge overnight to warm up. Racked to bottles and primed at 64F with corn sugar for 3vol CO2 and included a couple of grams of Nottingham dry. When I tasted at bottling, dry fruity funkiness coming through but at 64F a pure alchohol smell and taste almost put me out and did get slight headache. I suspect I have a casethe of the infamous Fuesels!! I'm hoping carbonation and conditioning will tone down it down. Prayers and gifts of cash or beer will help me get through these troubled times ;)

Cheers

Baums
03/05/07 03:59 PM  
Re: Da wife would like a Delirium Tremens
DBear,

Hope it ends up delicious--time will mellow esters. I think fusels levels don't change dramatically though. Sometimes it's hard to tell how much of which is responsible for whatever character is bothering you. Based on the headaches it sounds like there are some extra fusels, but hopefully it's just a minor fusel issue (like even some commercial beers have) that is intensified by some excess esters that will eventually age out.

I think high gravity extract beers are tough, especially with respect to fusels, because it's hard to know what kind of nutrient levels are in the extract. Too few nutrients = too many fusels. But also, too many nutrients = too many fusels. With all grain, I think it's easier to guess which side of the curve you're on.

Did you use nutrients? How much?

Anyway I hope you keep updating as the flavor changes.

Baums

DBear
03/06/07 10:21 AM  
Re: Da wife would like a Delirium Tremens

Thanks Baums,

I tried the pitch low and ramp to 70's but didn't have precise control over temp.

I only used yeast nutrients, tsp in boil and pinch in fermenter. I remember reading about accounting for FAN(?) but it didn't click at that time.

Cheers

Baums
03/06/07 01:37 PM  
Re: Da wife would like a Delirium Tremens
I've heard it said often by various gurus (but never seen hard data to prove it) that low initial FAN in the wort leads to high fusel levels in the beer. I should not have repeated this above, though, because I don't know for sure that it's true. If I had to bet, I would guess it is true because there are decent reasons to believe it based on yeast metabolism.

I HAVE seen hard data, in several different places, indicating that high initial FAN levels in the wort lead to high final fusel levels in the beer. This is also consistent with what I believe about yeast metabolism. It's also consistent with statements by Belgian brewmasters that high gravity beers made from pure malt have more fusels than those that get a few points from refined sugar.

So, there seems to be a "sweet spot" where minimum fusels are produced, and then (all other things being equal) as FAN levels increase or decrease from there, fusels go up. Complicating matters a little is the fact that you need enough FAN so that you don't have other problems (attenuation, solventy esters).

Anyway I don't think this "sweet spot" is especially small or super hard to hit. With extract it's a little harder to know where you're at, but it's reasonable to suspect that nutrient levels are low. Only way to tell is to brew...

Baums

 
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