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01/04/07 08:34 PM  
#3763 Roeselare Alternatives
I just used my last packet of Wyeast's #3763 Roeselare. I was wondering if anyone has found alternative sources besides using pure cultures. I'm not a MB (I do have a BS in Biology and a Chemistry minor though) so I don't have the equipment to grow cultures, but I have done a lot of growing up starters from bottles, especially Orval (for the Brettanomyces) and Fantome (the nice lacto bottles at least).

Also, has anyone tried growing up a starter from a bottle of NB's La Folie? I have a few bottles and was thinking of giving it a shot the next time one is opened. I was wondering how quickly it gets out of balance. Thanks.

01/05/07 10:30 AM  
Re: #3763 Roeselare Alternatives
From what I understand of the blend it didn't contain anything all that special, that is to say I think the components are probably available separately. The only wildcard there would be the saccromyces strain, maybe one of our lab techs can comment on that one.
01/05/07 01:32 PM  
Re: #3763 Roeselare Alternatives
Based on the descriptions and having used Roeselare and the sour bugs below, my best guess is that Roeselare is

Wyeast Belgian Wheat Yeast (least sure about this, and have never used it, and not sure how much it matters)

Wyeast Lacto Delbrueckii (think this is very likely)

Wyeast Brett Lambicus (think this is very likely)

Wyeast is secretive about what's in the blend. But there have been multiple descriptions of Roeselare over the years and the hints point at this mix.

Al B
01/05/07 01:40 PM  
Re: #3763 Roeselare Alternatives
I would tend to go with WY belgian wheat based on the flavor profile and coming from DeDolle (I think) for Saccharomyces. Quite often, I see recipes using WY lambic culture for flemish reds, oud brunes (where described having a wheat yeast, a sherry yeast, etc. etc. etc.).

Dregs from Fantome certaintly will offer up Lactobacilli and a few Bretts (and God knows what else!).

Al Bacillus

Al B
01/05/07 01:43 PM  
Re: #3763 Roeselare Alternatives

Yeah, I'd go along with that blend scenerio.

01/05/07 02:08 PM  
Re: #3763 Roeselare Alternatives
Yea, I've heard it was a wheat strain as well.

So, I would best guess it as that.

I've also heard that Wyeast is supposed to be bringing the Roselare back because of all the inquiries on it's availability, or lack there of.

01/06/07 01:31 PM  
Re: #3763 Roeselare Alternatives
Jamil Z. has mentioned that the sacch. component of the WY Roeselare blend is the CA Ale strain. I consider him a pretty reliable source since he has spoken with Chris W. and Dave L. on a number of occasions.
Al B
01/08/07 08:44 AM  
Re: #3763 Roeselare Alternatives
Well, that's somewhat surprising, however the Saccharomyces portion of the blend is probably not as critical as the other bugs' intense acid/flavor/aroma charactristics.....especially after aging.

01/08/07 09:49 AM  
Re: #3763 Roeselare Alternatives
You know what's funny? In Jean-Xavier Guinard's Lambic book (classic beer style series) he recommends harvesting from a bottle of Sierra Nevada pale ale to get the saccharomyces you'd need for your lambic bug blend. Man, that really left me scratching my head. Why, of all the beers out there, would he want you to use that? Maybe WYeast picked a CA Ale strain cause an experts suggested it for lambic back in the 90s?
Al B
01/08/07 09:59 AM  
Re: #3763 Roeselare Alternatives
I wonder if any Sacch. ever got into your ambient ale(s)?

I wonder if ya used a Hefeweizen strain, would ya even pick out banana/cloves after a Brett attack.

Now I'm scratching my head...............ouch. Hmmmm, a brett hefeweizen......

01/08/07 02:54 PM  
Re: #3763 Roeselare Alternatives
I think brett can secrete esterases that break down isoamyl acetate--so no bananas (but if anyone actually tests this I'd love to hear about it). Not sure about the cloves...
01/08/07 03:29 PM  
Re: #3763 Roeselare Alternatives
It sounds like Wyeast is going to re-release the Roeselare yeast in their new limited release program sometime this year.

I've used Fantome's dregs before. This fall I brewed with Dark White and was really happy with the results. Very lactic, but I've found it's great if you let them age, and of course like the lactic bite.

01/08/07 06:05 PM  
Re: #3763 Roeselare Alternatives
This is the e-mail I got from Wyeast's Jon Graber regarding the Roeselare blend...

"We discontinued Wyeast 3763 Roeselare from our regular line-up about 7 months ago when we scaled back our entire catalog. At the same time we started a new program, our VSS (Very Special Strains) Promotion which is a vehicle for us to introduce new strains, re-issue retired strains, and offer proprietary strains like Rogue Ales' Pacman. Roeselare was featured last year for 3 months, and will likely return again later this year. We decide on and announce the strains on each quarterly promotion about 1.5 months prior to its beginning. None of our discontinued strains are available on special order."

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