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Author Replies
SteveG
01/15/07 11:21 AM  
What bottles have you harvested from?
The guy who posted the "Gauloise yeast farming?" thread (welcome Barry Reed - or should I call you "Baz"?) made something come to mind. He asked (essentially) if the primary yeast could be found in the bottles of 3 specific beers. There is only two ways to know that, to either have been the guy who made the beer or to have attempted to harvest from the bottle with success. It seems like I heard this sort of thing here a bunch of times, maybe a list of our combined results is in order. Have you done this? If so, would you be willing to share that info? If you are, please post to this thread the beer that was cultured from, the approximate date you did it (year is especially important in case something significant happens to the beers production at some point) and what your results were. I'll make up a table and keep it easily accessable.
shoreman
01/15/07 11:59 AM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
I've cultured Allagash White yeast out of the 750's with great success - they are unfiltered. I've actually done it three times. One time I had a problem with some fruit flies that got into my growler, but that was not the yeasts fault.

Last time I cultured this was in Summer of 2005. I acquired this information from Rob Tod the brewmaster of Allagash.

I'm interested in other peoples findings.

Al B
01/15/07 12:05 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
Great idea, Steve.

Fantome Black Ghost 2006: 1 Sacch. strain , 3 wild yeasts, and lactobacillus.

Brett #1 - probably a member of B. Bruxellensis, smoky horse-like, intense (low population in dregs)

Wild yeast #2 - very little C02 produced, an oxidative rather than fermentative yeast - Barnyard

Brett #3 - Bready, fruity similar WY lambicus with Brett character - slow to ferment at first but becomes strong

S1 - Saccharomyces yeast - ????

I had recovered the yeast from Witkap Pater Abbey Single, but didn't do anything w/ it........looks like a good thing to do.

shoreman
01/15/07 12:24 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
Al B - re: Witkap Pater Abbey Single

I have abottle of this, so you were succesfull in culturing it? What did the sample taste like? I may do this.

Al B
01/15/07 12:33 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
Yes in culturing it - once. Age of the bottles prevented other times I tied. I didn't taste it or brewed with it, but the bottle label as you know says its unfiltered, unpasteurized which lead me to try harvesting it. It did smell OK. Looked like yeast.

No longer have this, so I'll have to try again with fresh bottles.

Al B
01/15/07 01:31 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
Well, maybe not w/ Witkap Pater.......from the importer:

"Witkap has a very high fermentation temperature (22 degrees Celsius). It is held at this temperature for five days. The beer is aged for four weeks at 5 degrees Celsius. The beers are then centrifuged. At bottling, Witkap is dosed with candi sugar and new yeast."

New yeast? Maybe different.

ErikH
01/15/07 02:52 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
Saison Dupont (2005)

Fantome (2005) [regular Fantome Saison]

Orval (2006)

In particular, the 'Enkel'/Single I made recently with the Orval starter added to the secondary is astonishing in its reproduction of the "Gout d' Orval" - all the urinal puck aroma, fruitiness and quinine-like bitter flavor reminiscent of the original has evolved, and was pretty noticeable, even after 4 wks secondary and only 2 wks in the bottle . . .

N8
01/15/07 03:07 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
Successful bottle cultures I've pulled up are:

Delerium Tremens

La Chouffe

Gouyasse Triple

Orval

Kasteel Blonde

SteveG
01/15/07 03:35 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
N8, can you guess at dates - or at least years - for those?
SteveG
01/15/07 04:40 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
Gang, don't forget that knowing your failures is as important as knowing your successes. Al, remember what year you had success with Witkap Pater? Got a nice little start to a table here.
N8
01/15/07 05:16 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
The Gouyasse was early 2006, prolly around April, May

DT was about 2004 and 2005 and 2006

Same with La Chouffe

Orval about 2005

Kasteel about 2005 and 2006

barry reed
01/16/07 04:32 AM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
Saison Dupont (2005). Recommended.

Orval (2006) -- no luck for me.

Baz.

shoreman
01/16/07 09:26 AM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
How about hennepin? I'm brewing the grisette recipe from farmhouse ales and may use this yeast instead of wlp500. The bottle I have is new and from Belgium, so I'm not sure if Moortgat is throughing in their bottling strain.
SteveG
01/16/07 09:49 AM  
Hey ErikH...
How did the Saison Dupont (2005) and Fantome (2005) [regular Fantome Saison] turn out? Success or no?

Baums
01/16/07 10:18 AM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
Dupont Foret: Cultured successfully from a small capped bottle--didn't see a date on it. A surprising bonus is that the yeast did NOT require high temperatures to do its thing.
Ubriaco
01/16/07 10:46 AM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
Good thread. I am in the middle of a harvest session right now, since I was in Chicago two weeks ago and picked up some obscure stuff that I have not had before.

La Chouffe 2005 mid

Dupont 2005 late

La Choulette 2006 early

Ch'Ti 2006 Early

Hennepin 2005 late

My latest batch of culturing is:

Zoetzuur - one S.c. colony isolated

Monks Cafe - one S.c. colony isolated

St. Bernard

Duyck

those were the successful ones

These two failed, but I am still trying

De Dolle (I know you can buy it, but what fun is that?)

De Blaugies

Sitting at home uncultured because Im scatterbrained:

Fantome

Sitting at home undrank, waiting to be cultured:

Vondel

and because it escapes me: some brewery that I believe starts with a B, and it has a Frenchish looking man on the label wearing a leather flight helmet with goggles above. So if you can figure that one out, without me having to run home, that would be great.

ErikH
01/16/07 11:20 AM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
Steve -

In response to your question, both the SD and Fantome starters showed activity and displayed aromas characteristic of the respective brews. The Fantome was definitely a successful culture, as the resting beer's sourness and fermentation progress showed. Not so sure about the SD's performance in the actual beer, though - looking back at what I wrote at the time indicates it may not have taken off so well.

Steve, you may recall our discussion of it about a year back, at:

www.babblebelt.com/newboard/thread.html?tid=1108752780&th=1116987459&pg=&tpg=2

Ubriaco
01/16/07 12:56 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
Well I just put some samples under the scope.

The De Blaugies will likely plate this time, so I will be successful on that one. But the De Dolle is rittled with bacilli, that I can only imagine to be lactobacillus. Oh well, no big loss, I may try to clean it up, but I dont know how I feel about that right now, considering my time, and its commerical availability.

Al B
01/17/07 09:48 AM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
Ubriaco -

Where did you acquire Vondel?

Al B thirsty

<<and because it escapes me: some brewery that I believe starts with a B, and it has a Frenchish looking man on the label wearing a leather flight helmet with goggles above. So if you can figure that one out, without me having to run home, that would be great>>

hmmm. Bruegel?

Ubriaco
01/17/07 10:59 AM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
Al,

Sams wine in Downers Grove IL, they have a nice website and ship.

The other one that escaped my mind is La Binchoise Brune.

Last nights plating was successful, nice colony separation, so De Dolle and Blaugies are now waiting for glycerol and testing.

Al B
01/17/07 02:36 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
<<Sams wine in Downers Grove IL, they have a nice website and ship>>

Oh, OK. I was in Sams across the street from Goose Island brewing in Chicago last month but didn't see it. I did pick up some other curious bottles for my flight home - Reinhart Wild Flemish ale ought to something, Rader amber perhaps I'll give it a try.

N8
01/17/07 03:27 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
Al,

the Reinhart Wild Flemish is a great beer. Brett-y and tart. Not much lactic bite.

ChrisPr
01/17/07 05:10 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
The Reinhart Wild Flemish is great but some of the Flemish Primitives are 'wilder'. Has anyone looked at the Flemish Primitives or some other of De Proef's wilder brews?
Ross Lunato
01/17/07 05:21 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
I'm reeeaaallllyy interested in hearing how the Blaugies and Foret strains work up. That Blaugies strain is extremely attenuative and works at lower temperatures than the Dupont yeast. Supposedly, the Wyeast 3726 Farmhouse Ale yeast was this yeast. I brewed with it twice and my final gravity finished from 1.054 to 1.006. And that was with a mash temp of 72*C.
Al B
01/17/07 07:59 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
<<the Reinhart Wild Flemish is a great beer. Brett-y and tart. Not much lactic bite>>

Thats cool. I'll have to dig into that.

I've had a couple of the primitive ales - but haven't had the opportunity to culture. The "pinhead" primitive ale is completely insane (intense horse and smoke). The "spooner" I liked at Steve's psycho party. I bet the sediment will yield bugs.

N8
01/17/07 11:09 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
Yes, those primitives are great. The one with the nun is really nice. Spicy, tart, hints of lactic bite, smoke, peach, apricot. Yumm! I've had the pinhead, as well, I've got the "whirly Bird" in my cellar. Haven''t had that yet.

Might need to go take care of that problem...

shoreman
01/18/07 09:32 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
How about the Rodenbach small bottles? I have seen a thin layer of sediment in the bottles - is it a lager yeast? I think they filter before bottling.

Any thoughts?

Ubriaco
01/19/07 12:42 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
The last bottle of Rodenbach (little one) I could get my hands on was purchased by a friend of mine in Belgium, and brought to me personally (nice guy). I didnt see any sediment and I think they pasteurize and filter now. The big bottles which I found in a little liquor store cross corner from the Hopleaf in Chicago were also sedimentless. Quite unfortunate really.

The guy who brought me the Rodenbach also brought me a Rodenbach bottle fridge magnet, and a Rodenbach pool raft. Very cool.

Baums
01/19/07 04:20 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
Ross's comment got me thinking. First of all, I have heard that Blaugies gets their yeast from Dupont, so why did Wyeast release 3726, and what is the real difference between it and 3724 (which of course is held to be a Dupont culture)? Does Blaugies still get yeast from Dupont?

Second of all, as I mentioned above, my Dupont bottle cultures work fast at lower temps, just as Ross said the 3726 did. I guess this is what I would expect if 3726 = Blaugies = repitched Dupont. But what is the deal with 3724, and the WLP saison yeast, which are held to be slow and to need high temps?

Ross Lunato
01/19/07 06:38 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
<<Ross's comment got me thinking. First of all, I have heard that Blaugies gets their yeast from Dupont, so why did Wyeast release 3726, and what is the real difference between it and 3724 (which of course is held to be a Dupont culture)? Does Blaugies still get yeast from Dupont?>>

My sentiments exactly Baums. What's the difference? I know this: 3724 and 3726 are definitely different both in flavor and aroma profile but also in ferementation performance.

Also, I believe both breweries ferment this yeast at different temperatures with Blaugies feremnting in the upper 70's.......I think; someone correct me if I'm off here. However, Blaugies beers are EXTREMELY attenuated; I measured a De Epeautre recently at 97% ADF! I usually measure Dupont's around 90 - 91% ADF. Of course this could be mashing procedure. Personally, I think they may be different. Maybe Blaugies originally obtained yeast from Dupont but now it has adapted to their brewing techniques, ingredients, environment etc. Then again, maybe I'm a Chinese Jet Pilot...

Ubriaco
01/19/07 08:59 PM  
Re: What bottles have you harvested from?
You know what. I have a culture of de Blaugies ready for testing, tommorow morning. And I have a bottle culture of Dupont that I promised to a buddy tommorow who will not be around to collect it. So I will put these through my testing and this should give us more info, hopefully ( he will still get his culture before saison season). I have two beer judges and a BJCP class interested in tasting my latest yeast testing, so the results should be fairly valid and calibrated. I will let everyone know results when they are available (3 weeks by my estimite).
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