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Brian Richards
02/14/07 03:36 AM  
Gettin Funky
So I have some of the Wyeast Lambic Blend and a White Labs Clausinii coming in tomorrow and I have yet to make a beer using any type of Brett or Bacteria. I am planning on doing a lambic, obviously, with the lambic blend but I have no clue what to do with the Clausinii. I know that the Clausinii is a mutant strain found in lambic that originated from stock ales across the drink but what styles of beer can I pull off successfully as a rookie. Steve, I know you posted about using it in a Berliner which is a style I have been wanting to do, but did you use a strain that had been altered at all or did you use the straight up White labs Claus? Anyone else that has had success with this, please chime in just to give me an idea of the range this yeast has. I've been craving some funky-brews so much lately so I've finally decided to get over the whole (i'm affraid to brew with brett/bact. because I don't want to mess up my Sacc brewing phase). I know, seperation is the key.
SteveG
02/14/07 06:29 AM  
Re: Gettin Funky
Straight up, yes, but also worked up. I got mine from Al who originally got it from WhiteLabs. He keeps yeast/bacteria samples which he works up to pitchable amounts as needed. I think what he gave me was ideal in terms of volume, I'd guess it was 3 or 4 times what comes in a vile. Al, how's my guess here?
Mike T
02/14/07 11:47 AM  
Re: Gettin Funky
You have two options on what to do with your Brett C.

You can make a starter with the tube and then use it to ferment a beer of your choice. Right now I have a light ale based on a recipe Sebastian posted, and a clone of Moí Betta Bretta half of which just got sour cherries that had been rehydrated in Pinot Noir. Neither is as funky as I expected, but I have been told by people around here that in the next 6 months they will get considerably more sour and funky. I now have about a quart of washed Brett C in my fridge that I will have to find a use for, anyone in the DC area want some?

Pictures and recipes at www.madfermentationist.blogspot.com

The other option is to pitch it (no starter needed) into an already fermented beer and then age/ferment it for a few months. I have an Old Ale with merlot oak and a Dark Belgian with sweet cherries and bourbon oak that have both been aging with Brett for about 6 months.

Itís always fun to play with something that only a handful of the pros are even attempting. Good luck.

SteveG
02/14/07 12:28 PM  
Re: Gettin Funky
DC area? Mike, are you with BURP?
Mike T
02/14/07 12:38 PM  
BURP
Short Answer: Yes.

Long Answer: Iíve only been to 1 meeting (October), and I managed to loose the email with the membership instructions. After occasionally sending emails to the membership address I finally heard back about 2 weeks ago, sent my check in, but havenít heard back yet.

Not making it to the February meeting, because I already had plans to brew and its 50 miles from me, but I should be there for March.

Al B
02/14/07 01:10 PM  
Re: Gettin Funky
Steve -

The contents of the vial was small on the B.c. What you had was more on the magnitude of 10-20 times the amount. A single vial is fine for secondary pitch if you ask me.

Mike T - sounds cool - all that wine/cherries/boubon/oak/brett stuff

ErikH
02/14/07 01:14 PM  
Re: Gettin Funky
Great blog, Mike - I enjoyed very much seeing the color comparisons of the various sugars and your batch of fermenting brews!

Wonder why the caramelized sugar didn't seem to ferment at all (?) Does anyone have a chemical reason for this?

Also, I'm curious to know what format / source did you use for the oak in the Strong Dark? I had some Heavyweight Old Salty barleywine 2006 the other day, which apparently was aged with brett and bourbon barrels - quite intriguing! Any sense of the impact on your brew yet?

Mike T
02/14/07 01:55 PM  
Re: Gettin Funky
A couple homebrewers on other sites have had the same results with that recipe for caramel. I canít give a chemical explanation other than to say that all the color/flavor that appears when you make caramel comes from fermentable sugars being broken down and recombined into molecules that are no longer simple sugars.

There are two theories that have been posed for the strange behavior of theis caramel in particular. The first is that the DAP provides nitrogen which means that this is actually a Maillard reaction (same as a steak browning) that spits out all sorts of weird non-fermentable compounds. The second is that the fructose (which caramelizes at 230 F, much lower than the other sugars) is in someway messing with the process.

As for the bourbon oak, I made it myself. I took oak cubes (French, but American would be more traditional), hit them with my blowtorch until they were pretty charred and then threw them in some Eligia Craig for a few weeks/months. I had no idea the Old Salty Barrel Ď06 had brett, I scored a bottle last summer (a steal at $6.99), but havenít tried it yet. Should be excellent, I really miss Heavyweight, nobody else on this coast has as much imagination.

SteveG
02/14/07 03:08 PM  
Re: Gettin Funky
Wow Al, 10 - 20X. It performed just like yeast, sounds like what comes in the vile really needs a little pick-me-up before it can be a primary fermenter.
Cuda
02/14/07 03:29 PM  
Re: Gettin Funky
Mike- I also will give you some thanks for the Belgian sugar comparison.

From what I have heard, and I also talked to Vinne from Russian River about his Temptation and other bret beers(I live about 1 1/2hours from Russian River). Is that Tomme from Pizza Port used the Anomolus strain in his Moí Betta Bretta. I going to make a 100% bret beer with the Anomolus strain soon I just ordered some Anomolus from Wyeast. I will keep you guys updated on that one. It will be a few weeks before I can brew it. I have one brew in front of it. I'm going to do a Golden strong but split the wort and boil it for 60,90,and 120min to see what carmalization does to color and flavor.

If you want to listen to Vinne talk about the different types "brets" go to www.thebrewingnetwork.com and look up the 8-14-05 show and about 52mins in Vinne talks about some different characters of bret.

Ryan A
02/15/07 01:15 AM  
Re: Gettin Funky
Hey Mike, I'm in the DC area, Beltsville actually. Where are you? I've been trying to decide what to do for my next bug brew, I think might know what I'm brewing next now. I think I'm going to do a split 10 gallon batch of Brett Pale Ale, one with Brux and one with Claus. Shoot me an email artuso (at) umd (dot) edu
Brian Richards
02/15/07 04:07 AM  
Re: Gettin Funky
Well, I think I might start growing up my Claussenii to a big boy starter and try it out on a Berliner style brew. Seems to be what my brewing buddies want me to do as well. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for all the response.
Brian Mercer
02/15/07 10:21 AM  
Re: Gettin Funky
Cuda,

Did you special order the Anomolus? I have not seen it in the Wyeast lineup. Also, any differences between Anomolus and Clausenii?

Baums
02/15/07 11:51 AM  
Re: Gettin Funky
Just a note on the brett names:

I recently tried to sort out the "official" differences between the various brett strains, from the latest (2003?) edition of the massive/authoritative "The Yeasts: a Taxonomic Study." It seems there are 5 recognized species of brett, 3 of which were not isolated from beer. The other two are Dekkera/Brett anomala (which includes strains that have at one time or another been called "claussenii" or "anomalous") and Dekkera/Brett bruxellensis (which includes strains that have been called "lambicus" or "bruxellensis" are strains).

And the #1 difference I could find between anomala and brux. is... (drum roll here) "assimilation of succinate." Basically, it doesn't seem that the latest taxonomy is very helpful for brewing.

By the way, I don't think we can be certain that the commercial strains are properly named/classified anyway. I am pretty sure that at least one "wild" bug out there is not, based on a recent experience I had. Hopefully I'll have something more definitive to say about that soon.

Anyway I think the best and maybe only way to start understanding these yeasts is for a lot of people to experiment with the available strains and talk about the results, and it's great that that's happening on this board.

Cuda
02/15/07 01:00 PM  
Re: Gettin Funky
Brian,

I ordered it from my local home brew shop. The Anomolus strain was on the order form from Wyeast. I have not call the shop to see if they had any problem getting it. I will find out later today. As for the difference between the strains I'm new to all the bret beers. I do have a Belgian blond that I add the bottom of a few bottles of Russian River's Temptation. The Temptation has the claussenii and the bruxellensis strain from what I hear.

Cuda
02/15/07 02:26 PM  
Re: Gettin Funky
Sorry I don't know how to edit-

<<The Temptation has the claussenii and the bruxellensis strain from what I hear.>>

Temptation has the Anomolus strain and the bruxellensis strain in it

Baums
02/15/07 02:55 PM  
Re: Gettin Funky
Cuda, do you know whether it's White Labs brux or Wyeast brux?
Brian Mercer
02/16/07 05:50 PM  
Re: Gettin Funky
Thanks Cuda.

Wyeast says that they still produce the Anomalus. Its Wyeast 5110.

Brian Richards
02/19/07 02:27 AM  
Re: Gettin Funky
Is the 5110 a limited strain, I didn't see it on the webpage?

Cuda(Mike M)
02/20/07 01:48 AM  
Re: Gettin Funky
My home brew shop will have my Anomalus in on Friday.

Baums-If you are asking about the mix of bret in the Temtation. My guess is it is a mix made by Vinnie at Russian River.

Brian Richards-Wyeast does have it but it is not on there webpage.

Brian Mercer
02/20/07 02:48 PM  
Re: Gettin Funky
Northern Brewer has it too. Just call them, they have it in the store-not on the website or catalog.
 
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