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Darel Matthews
03/16/07 06:34 PM  
Sour blends - differences?
Again another q in regard to formulating my first traditional lambic recipe. I haven't found the respective websites very helpful, do both White Labs and Wyeast include the same strains in their lambic blends, notably B Brux, B Lambicus, witbier yeast, pedio and lacto? They both say two strains, I'm assuming it's them. Just wondering if I would get more different bugs by pitching both a Wyeast and a WL pack. I'm also going to throw in some B. Claus just for fun. Any otehr individual bug cultures I can toss in? I don't think the entero is a good idea and haven't seena kloeckera culture yet. I also plan on tossing in commercial dregs here and there.

Thanks!

Darel

Al B
03/17/07 09:06 AM  
Re: Sour blends - differences?
Darel -

It has been recorded that the brett strains (brux + lambicus)from wyeast are different than the ones from WL. So that would be true for the blends as well, I suspect.

Will it add more compolexity? Haven't done it - yet. Well, it can't hurt.

I have ordered the WL sour mix for a lambic brew myself, and I'll probably culture it to compare the single strains alittle more closely.

If you want more of a bug soup, you could add Sherry yeast (Saccharomyces fermentati), Oenococcus (Malolactic bacteria similar to Pedio). But not necessary.

Al B
03/17/07 09:31 AM  
Re: Sour blends - differences?
BTW -

Myplan for a 3 gallon lambic: Turbid mash

60% pilsner

40% unmalted wheat

2 oz Vintage Saaz

1 - Saison yeast cake (WL Saison and Recultured Fantome), sherry yeast, bakers yeast

2 - WL sour mix, Oenococcus oenei, Fantome Brett isolate, WY B. lambicus

Add Chardonay oak sticks

skol -

AlamBic

SteveG
03/17/07 09:46 AM  
Re: Sour blends - differences?
Al, just 2 weeks ago I picked up an envelope of WY lambicus and dumped it into my brett C. saison. It was pricey, like 13 bucks. If you want I could give you a sample of my saison, maybe you can get your own lambicus sample to grow up from there.
Darel Matthews
03/17/07 10:41 AM  
Re: Sour blends - differences?
Thanks again Al. Since I work at a LHBS and get everything at cost the individual blends don't cost me much. I think I will throw in both WL and WY lambic blends (which do include sherry yeast they say) plus B Clausenii. I see you're using baker's yeast - have you found that in commercial examples? Figured out what character it lends yet?

Thanks again,

Darel

Al B
03/17/07 11:31 AM  
Re: Sour blends - differences?
Steve - I keep a subculture of the WY lambicus (thanks anywho) wait a minute......why didn't you ask me for that?!?!?!? Thats what I used for my 100% B.lambicus brew "Silence of the Lambicus".

Darel - I've never used Baker's yeast (but what the heck)I doubt it adds much though. I'm leaving out the clausenii this time. The aged batch of lambic I have now is rather clausenii-dominant, so I'll blend it with this one I plan on making.

Alambicus

Darel Matthews
03/17/07 12:31 PM  
Re: Sour blends - differences?
How long did it take for Claus to take over?

Al B
03/17/07 01:23 PM  
Re: Sour blends - differences?

I had added a small 50ml pouch of lambic blend to that batch (I don't know the populations of brett there). Then I added quite a bit of clausenii to the batch I recall, I don't remember the timing of the addition.

From my experience, once clausenii gets going, it can grow rapidly. In dealing with mixed populations though, its sometimes tough to predict since competition of nutrients is underway. Trial + error, but you can inoculate after lambic blends are added, and/or inoculate with a small dose to start.

But I look forward in blending 1+2 yr old brews.

 
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