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03/20/07 10:01 AM  
Racking Brett Beers
I'm currently brewing an Oud Bruin, and primary fermentation is just about done. The recipe I am using says to rack to a secondary fermenter and then pitch L. Delbrueckii (and then let it ferment for 2-3 months).

But a number of other sources I have seen suggest not racking the beer off of the trub when you are going to pitch "wild" yeasts, because those yeasts will need the nutrients in the trub during the long fermentation.

Does anyone have an opinion about which is best? To rack or not to rack the oud bruin?

03/20/07 11:37 AM  
Re: Racking Brett Beers
Lambic producers do not rack, for the reason you suggest. But producers of Flemish sour red/brown ale do generally separate the primary yeast from the beer before significant brett is introduced. It sounds like you're going for the latter, but of course you get to decide how you want to treat your brett. I have had good luck with racking for Flemish Red.

By the way, if you really have some l. delbrueckii (a bug I'd like to have, but do not think is available from any of the usual homebrew sources) to play with, and haven't read it already, you may be interested in the often-cited thesis by Hilde Martens on Flemish sour ales. She reports almost negligible lactic acid production by l. delbrueckii when added after primary, even after 100 days, even in unhopped wort. Pediococcus did somewhat better.

For the Wyeast culture previously labelled "l. delbrueckii" I have been able to get a little tartness by adding it after primary, but certainly nothing like oude gueuze or Rodenbach Grand Cru.

There may be lactobacillus cultures out there that can sour an already-primaried beer... anyone know of any?

03/20/07 12:25 PM  
Re: Racking Brett Beers
Nathan, what was your primary fermenter?
Al B
03/20/07 01:06 PM  
Re: Racking Brett Beers
I haven't had much problem w/ the WY lactobacillus after racking in a secondary (or Bretts for that matter).

WL sour mix supposedly uses L. brevis.

03/20/07 02:49 PM  
Re: Racking Brett Beers
Primary was in a carboy using Wyeast 1762.

One other question to boot: the volume of wort is 3.25 gallons. My intention was to pitch the whole package of L. Delbrueckii. Is this a bad idea? Is it possibly too much to pitch to 3+ gallons of wort?

03/20/07 04:02 PM  
Re: Racking Brett Beers
Is the Delbrueckii all you're pitching? The subject line is about brett beers, is there going to be a brett component?
03/20/07 04:32 PM  
Re: Racking Brett Beers
My mistake with the bad subject line. In this case, the Delbrueckii is all I'm pitching in secondary. But I do plan on doing two all-brett brews next, and was thinking of those as well.

On another note, does anyone know how to get a copy of the Hilda Martens thesis on the Acid Ales of Roeselare"?

03/20/07 05:25 PM  
Re: Racking Brett Beers
Nathan, I'm pretty sure I got my copy from a link someone posted to this site--you probably can dig it up somewhere in the archives.

Based on my limited experience with it, I would not worry about pitching too much WY lacto into secondary.

Al, when you say haven't had much of a problem with the WY lactobacillus in secondary, do you mean you haven't had a problem getting lots of sourness? Or do you mean something else?

Al B
03/21/07 07:43 AM  
Re: Racking Brett Beers
Baums -

I would say I haven't had a problem getting moderate sourness using WY Lacto. over a time period of 1-2 months after inoculation. I have an English old ale (~1.084) with that right now. I had an Oud bruin awhile ago with only that in the secondary that really did get sour.

I have also used various recultured lactobacilli (heterofermentative) in my flemish reds (alittle more sour). I think I have just found a homofermentative isolate recently from Dogfishhead Festina Lente. I find these recultured bugs are hardy, tolerant to hops/alcohol.

Anyway, as far as lactobacilli cultures are concerned in general, some yeast nutrients and higher temperatures will speed up lactic sourness. I normally add some yeast nutrients on brew-day. Yeast nutrients (such as WL Servomyces or WY nutrients) are especially important for lactic bacteria if your yeast is hardy and hasn't autolysed, freeing up nutrients as indicated over a long secondary.

So if you rack, don't worry. Add half of the lacto bugs and wait 2-3 months. If not sour to you're taste, add the other half with some yeast nutrients and/or raise the temperature if necessary for another 1-2 months.

Al Bacteria

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