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Sean White
05/09/07 03:30 PM  
reyeasting at bottling time with dried yeast: How
Hey all, So I've got an Orval clone that's been sitting in the secondary for a couple of months now. I want to re-yeast this at bottling time in order to keep the brett somewhat in check.

I'm thinking about using some dried, rehydrated Safale English yeast. I'm not sure how much to use, maybe 1/4 pack or even less? Also, what are the general cell count guidelines for reyeasting?

Thanks, Sean

ErikH
05/09/07 04:34 PM  
Re: reyeasting at bottling time with dried yeast:
Sean -

I don't know the cell count logic (paging Al B!) but in that situation, for a 6-point-something ABV beer, I would use about 1/4 pack (I think that's about 1.5 grams).

However, I'm used to doing this just as an assurance of carbonation, and others here could maybe check in on whether this addition would likely out-compete the brett (with its head start and voracious nature) or not . . . . (?)

Brian Richards
05/09/07 05:19 PM  
Re: reyeasting at bottling time with dried yeast:
I think I heard Jamil Z. say that you only need about 1/10 of what you would use for you primary for that beer to add before bottling.
Sean White
05/10/07 12:09 PM  
Re: reyeasting at bottling time with dried yeast:
Thanks guys, just nice to have a backup opinion on this.

I think re-yeasting will control the amount of bottling sugar that the brett will eat. This should control the more horsey, leathery flavors that might otherwise get a bit too high.

Al B
05/10/07 06:03 PM  
Re: reyeasting at bottling time with dried yeast:
<<>> think re-yeasting will control the amount of bottling sugar that the brett will eat. This should control the more horsey, leathery flavors that might otherwise get a bit too high<<>>

I think re-yeasting w/ the Saccharomyces will compete for the sugar, yes, and that may help control acidity. The brett will get more horsey none-the-less I predict. Storage temperature is another factor to consider to suit your taste. Interestingly, Orval uses the brett as a bottling yeast.

ErikH
05/11/07 02:07 PM  
Re: reyeasting at bottling time with dried yeast:
Al, that Orval now adds brett at bottling is generally accepted as the case, yes (rather than in the secondary). Still, as there is no filtering or other process that I am aware of, aren't we also looking at a mixed fermentation in the bottle? Sacch. still present and ready to go, plus the new brett at the time of priming/bottling? Seems like the inverse of what Sean is doing, time-wise, but otherwise similar.

FWIW, I did an Orval clone myself with yeast harvested from 2 bottles added for 4 weeks in the secondary and then primed to target 5 vol CO2(8.0 oz invert sugar for 4.5 gal) and did not add more yeast at bottling (I have only taken to doing that at 8% ABV and above). The resulting beer was pretty wildly overcarbonated (pours a full glass of foam and settles out in about 5 min with an eternal rocky head remaining) and really strongly bretty - too much for some folks, even a bit much for me. Acidity also is not unpleasant but a bit more than Orval's. The overcarb could maybe be attributed to calculation error but in any event, next time I think I will add the brett at bottling instead.

Mike T
05/11/07 03:03 PM  
Re: reyeasting at bottling time with dried yeast:
I added some (maybe an 1/6 of a packet) US-56 to half (2 gallons) of my first batch of 100% Brett (C) beer at bottling. Iíve been alternating opening the regular and re-yeasted bottles every couple of weeks. At this point I havenít noticed much of a difference, although I have yet to try them side by side. Both beers were carbonated by 2 weeks and both (after 2 months in the bottle) are just starting to get a hint of that hard edged Brett funk.

If anything I think the re-yeasted bottles might have more potential for funk development because the Brett will be able to use the autolysis-ing Saccharomyces as a source of nutrients.

Al B
05/11/07 03:28 PM  
Re: reyeasting at bottling time with dried yeast:
Erik,

I would say that yes, there is actually a mixed secondary fermentation in the bottle. Another possible way to help minimize is to add the brett in a very small dose at bottling time. What is a small dose? Thats the question.

8 oz in 4.5 gal........think think.......

Mike,

I never really got much "funk" from clausenii - all esters and acid.

Al B
05/11/07 04:41 PM  
Re: reyeasting at bottling time with dried yeast:
Ah, here we are.....from Zymurgy 11/06 - a thing on Orval. The beer is dosed at bottling with sugar. Orval adds a "mini" quantity of Brett at bottling. (thats not to say Seans brew won't be tasty).

A mini quantity........trial and error I suppose.

 
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