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06/15/07 10:57 AM  
Roeselare phenolics
So I have 9 gallons left of about a year and a half Roeselare going and am wondering if anyone else who has experimented with this blend has also encountered light smokey phenolics. Last year I blended one gallon of this with a saison and the beer turned out very good but definitely has an edge of light smokey phenolics happening.
06/16/07 09:50 AM  
Re: Roeselare phenolics
I have none left to ponder directly, and my Roeselare efforts never got that old. But that being said I can't say I encountered what you described.
06/16/07 12:43 PM  
Re: Roeselare phenolics
I get smokey notes from bit pedio infections.

Maybe the pedio just got kicking, or there's a newer bacteria goin' at it.

06/18/07 09:38 AM  
Re: Roeselare phenolics
Brendan, how do you know you got smokey notes from pedio and not something else?

Cisco, I noticed smokey aromas developed quickly with WY b. lambicus when grown on agar (and I think this is in the Roeselare). But those notes have been absent with the same strain is grown in wort, and a beer I made with Roeselare. The agar I used was made with DME, Wyeast nutrient, and CaCO3, so the reason for the smokey smell on agar appears to be one or more of the following:

1. the very high nutrient levels on the agar

2. the very high CaCO3 levels on the agar

3. the availability of oxygen when growing on agar

(I think #2 is probably unlikely.) Did your brett either get a fair bit of oxygen at some point, or get a bunch of nutrients at some point (either from the intentional addition of nutrient, or from autolysis)?

06/18/07 10:35 AM  
Re: Roeselare phenolics

after a year and a half at a Brew On Premise, I have had/seen some beers go bad. Some while being served from a keg that's on tap. The Lactobacillus, I believe, goes dormant, while some of the pedio can keep rocking below 40.

There's a Brewpub here in lincoln, ne that has some infected beer (all the time) and it's this smokey phenolic flavor/aroma that is exactly like the aroma and flavor of some Miller that had pedio added to it - for the Brewing Science Institute short course.. so folks could identify various beer spoilage organisms.

06/18/07 05:29 PM  
Re: Roeselare phenolics
Hmm. The reason I asked was that I have always associated smoke with brett (based on the experience I described, and some other stuff). I had never heard anything linking pedio and smoke.

If it were just your experience with the bad kegs/beers I would be unconvinced, because after all there could be any number of critters in those beers... brett, hafnia, zymomo-whatever, etc. But it sounds like you're also saying that you had Miller spiked with a known pure culture of pedio, and that it was smoky. Surprising/interesting.

06/18/07 06:06 PM  
Re: Roeselare phenolics
Interesting! Who knows!

In your experience with plating.. Did you ever get the smokey from pedio plated.

I rememeber going back to the BOP after the short course and all sorts of smells reminded me of nasties in dishes and the lacto and pedio in regular commercial beers.

And, also weird.. I had noticed more of the cherry pie tart flavors - that I had associated with brett L.

Beer is weird.

Last week I bottled a bunch of homebrew. Some 3522 belg. Pale, and a barleywine, and today there's some film/pellicle ish- stuff on the 3522 bottles - at the neckline/ring type thing, and the big beer has none! Bottled one after the other. There's less "belgian" flavor from the 3522 than I expected, and a weird apple sour type off flavor. GRR. While working at the BOP my homebrew stuff sat around. I need to do a big cleaning session with some Bleach (and plenty of rinsing!) or some Star-Xene if I can get my hand on some again!

After a few years of clean beers, getting back into it, and I think I have some infections going on. shux

Al B
06/19/07 01:56 PM  
Re: Roeselare phenolics
<<and it's this smokey phenolic flavor/aroma that is exactly like the aroma and flavor of some Miller that had pedio added to it - >>

I would have thought that Pedio would lend buttery diacetyl more than phenolics. However, certain strains of lactic bugs do lend fruity aromas.

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