Welcome to the homeBBBrew board!
Like the BBB, the homeBBBrew board is not a club, just a place to talk about making beer. Is there a swap you would like to see happen? If we can find a few others who have something similar then lets do it!

NO SPECIFIC REASON FOR THIS LINK...
I just really like the work levifunk is doing!

PASSWORD PROTECTION: READ THIS BEFORE POSTING!
YOUR BBB USERNAME AND PASSWORD WILL NOT WORK ON THIS BOARD! If you want to post, you need to read this.

HomeBBBrewBoard
HotLinks!
Brettanomyces Brewing
E-Symposium Transcript!

Trouble making Trappists?
Discover Liquid Candy Syrup!
See what color impact to expect from liquid candy.

Search for:
Author Replies
ryan
09/17/07 08:43 PM  
pellicle from Vinnie
Uhhhh....

is a moldy looking green and white pellicle normal?

This is what formed on the starter I made with the oak chips from Vinnie C.

thanks

ryan

SteveG
09/17/07 09:40 PM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
It might be, pellicle is seldom a pretty sight. Can you take a photo? Maybe one of our bug doctors can diagnos the patient.
ryan
09/18/07 08:26 AM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
I will try to take a photo when it reforms. The starter went into my secondary last night. It smelled okay (actually pretty good: chardonnay maybe a little oakish, not too harsh) but when I swirled it up to pour into the carboy I had spores puffing out the top of the starter bottle. So not only am I worried about the quality of the starter but it looks like I'll have bugs in my kitchen from now on.

On a side note, I overfilled the carboy when racking into the secondary and too make room for the starter and to give it a little headspace, I dumped some beer out of the carboy. This had a "glug glug glug" effect on things and I'm wondering if adding this much air to the beer will have major negative consequences over the course of the next 18-24 months of secondary fermentation.

Anyone have any ideas?

thanks

ryan

Al B
09/18/07 10:55 AM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
Ryan,

Next time around, no need to add alot of starter for secondary souring bugs (they will do what they do). The starter from the wood chips is just to get them going and revive the slower ones.

Second, since most sugars are done in the primary, leaving some headspace is not warranted. Actually, if that stuff is mold, you should purge the headspace at least to remove O2.

Use a siphon if you MUST remove BEER!! Hopefully, you drank it.

Al B

Ryan
09/18/07 11:14 AM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
Al,

I left head space to facilitate pellicle formation. Still not necessary? I filled up to the five gallon mark so all thats left is the space above that.

Is this worth letting run its course at this point or have I blown it with the oxygenation I induced when pouring off the top?

Al B
09/18/07 11:25 AM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
Pellicle formation is not necessary, but does block oxidation as some O2 will over time diffuse into via the airlock/stopper once all CO2 production ceases. So let it run its course (a few glug glugs should not be a big deal). Any O2 initially will be consumed by the bugs you added as they minch on the remaining complex sugars.

By purging the headspace, you will prevent mold and/or Acetobacter (if any are present) from becoming a nuisance.

Don't worry.

ryan
09/18/07 12:02 PM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
so would you add water or something else to purge the head space that remains?

Al B
09/18/07 12:35 PM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
CO2

If you dont have any, don't worry. Some CO2 should develop from the souring bugs

ryan
09/18/07 01:36 PM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
yeah I have the co2 tank for my kegs but how do you blow co2 into a carboy? Disconnect the gas line and go straight off the reg?

Cisco
09/18/07 06:22 PM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
Remove the grey keg connector from the gas line and insert the line into the carboy and wait a minute.
ryan
09/18/07 06:32 PM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
thanks Cisco

I just asked N8 this but I'm curious to see what you all think.

Without thinking I did just that (purged with my tanks regulator) and now I'm wondering if the brett, pedio, lacto, etc... came up in a burst of air and maybe infected my regulator???????

Is that possible?

Cisco
09/18/07 07:06 PM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
I would say no. CO2 is a nasty environment.
Al B
09/19/07 12:12 PM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
Not likely, Ryan. Its a very dry, barren environment.

You can always wipe anything off that may come in contact with some vodka.......or whiskey.....mmmmmm whiskey .

Ryan
09/19/07 05:37 PM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
sweet

thanks Al and Cisco.

How do I post a photo of the pellicle?

ryan
09/19/07 06:19 PM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
Nevermind I just put up pics here:

www (dot) dartmouth (dot) edu/~calsbeeklab/lambeek.html

SteveG
09/19/07 09:24 PM  
Making that a bit easier
www.dartmouth.edu/~calsbeeklab/lambeek.html

Al B
09/20/07 07:58 AM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
That mountain-like formation in the middle there sure does look like mold. It might taste alittle musty - you can rack it off to minimize. You can purge the next carboy w/ CO2 before siphoning + purge the headspace. Molds can only grow in the presence of O2. And, of course keep the water up in yer airlock.
Ryan
09/20/07 08:11 AM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
thanks Al

so then are both of my carboys infected? Or can I autoclave a glass carboy?

Al B
09/20/07 08:53 AM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
You have an autoclave? nice.

Yes and no. You can have millions of mold spores, but they won't grow into vegetative mold cells unless there's O2. Since mold grows on the surface where O2 is present, just rack the brew by carefully siphoning into the other carboy. You have a bug beer, so sanitization (or sterilization by autoclaving for that matter) is not required.

Al Bunson-burner

Ryan
09/20/07 09:54 AM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
No no

I mean, the carboy that I'm racking out of....is that one ruined for "clean" beers now? Or could I autoclave it, sanitize it, bleach it, what?

So, yes, I have an autoclave (I'm a biologist and I have a lab) but I'm not clear on whether I can autoclave a 5 gal. carboy or if I even need to to clear glass of the bugs that were in it for a few days.

thanks dude

ryan

Al B
09/20/07 10:14 AM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
That carboy should be cleaned and sanitized - unless the glass is Pyrex or Kymex, don't try autoclaving - might break. I have used a percarbonate with a brush for cleaning, then bleach for 24 hrs, then rinsed 3x minimum with hot water on all bug carboys (no issues).

If the cleaned glass carboy is Pyrex, 15min @ 121C would be outstanding.

Ryan
09/20/07 10:18 AM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
Its your run of the mill Homebrew shop carboy so I doubt its Pyrex. I think to be safe I"ll go with the cleaning/sanitizing rather than sterilizing.

thanks Al.

R

Al B
09/21/07 09:43 AM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
Looked at 2 brews I added VC wood chips to. Pellicles forming - whitish slime w/ white opaque islands of growth.
Ryan
09/21/07 09:53 AM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
How long ago were those pitched?

BTW, I racked off and it looks like I have a clean secondary going now. Thanks dude.

Al B
09/21/07 10:15 AM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
Middle of July. Added the chips without a starter.
Ryan
09/21/07 10:18 AM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
will flushing the secondary with c02 prevent pellicle formation? It is my understanding that the pellicle forms by a Brett response to O2.

Alternatively, does enough O2 seep through a stopper to promote pellicle?

My current plan is to leave this thing with a stopper and air lock for awhile and then replace the airlock with a toasted dowel. But I'm wondering if having purged with co2, I will be in trouble without a pellicle?

Al B
09/21/07 11:49 AM  
Re: pellicle from Vinnie
Bretts may form pellicles.....this can be more complex situation than merely atmospheric conditions. But they do grow more in the presence of 02, they are more oxidative yeasts. WHat you don't want is growth of Acetobacter + molds. Over time, conditions will not be good for those 2 bugs as alcohol increases. Pellicles can form without much O2 or microaerophic conditions. Slime layers from bacteria (pediococcus) can also form.

As time goes, CO2 diminishes, and air will slowly diffuse in through rubber + plastic. So a pellicle may (usually) become thicker. I suspect in a couple of months you will see this happen.

 
Return to Forum

Post a Reply
Your Name:
Subject:
Message Body:


 
   
Username

Password

Around Bruges in 80 Beers: 2nd Edition

Around London in 80 Beers

Around Brussels in 80 Beers


Babblebelt contributors in attendance: