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Ubriaco
09/19/07 01:39 PM  
Hard to believe - yeast growth
So I have wondered a long time about how many cells my cultures really contained. My lab does not have a hemacytometer, so I never checked. Today curiosity overcame me and I went in search of one, and luckily the lab next door had one.

I proceeded to start the counting with an undiluted sample and it was apparent really quickly that this was futile, way too many cells. So I diluted it ten fold and started counting. After averaging I came up with 24 cells per small unit of the hemacytometer. Each small unit is 2.5x10^-7 mL and I diluted 10 fold. This equates to 960000000 (960 million) cells per mL. Holy crap! Is my math wrong?

This culture has only been on the stir plate with aeration for 36 hours, it totals 3000 mL right now, and I have 4 more liters of solution to add to it over the next 2 days before I crash it and brew on saturday.

If my calculations are not wrong its no wonder that I have been fermenting out all of my beers in 24 hours.

Al B
09/19/07 01:47 PM  
Re: Hard to believe - yeast growth
How much volume of starter are ya adding to how many gallons of wort?
Mike T
09/19/07 01:48 PM  
Re: Hard to believe - yeast growth
Iím no microbiologist, but that seems to be in the right ballpark to me.

Wyeast claims their 125 ml smack packs contain about 100 billion yeast cells. That would be equal to around 800 million cells per ml.

Ubriaco
09/19/07 01:54 PM  
Re: Hard to believe - yeast growth
Al,

After I crash it on friday, I'll remove all of the spent liquid by siphoning on saturday, take it home, brew, fill the erlenmeyer with fresh wort to resuspend and dump that into 10 gallons of wort.

Al B
09/19/07 02:04 PM  
Re: Hard to believe - yeast growth
Congrats Ubriaco. You are slightly over-pitching by 3 logs for ales! :~)

4000ml at 960 million/ml in 10 gal is......140000000/ml of wort.....at least.

Al B
09/19/07 02:30 PM  
Re: Hard to believe - yeast growth
oh man.....10 gallons of brew done in 24 hrs.

Steve - good thing Ubriaco isn't giving you his slurry.....KaBlamo!! .....there's a new comet in the sky today ladies + Gentlemen...."nah, thats SteveG's House!"

SteveG
09/19/07 02:44 PM  
Re: Hard to believe - yeast growth
That's the only way I'll ever be a heavenly body!
Trent
09/23/07 12:23 AM  
Re: Hard to believe - yeast growth
<<Wyeast claims their 125 ml smack packs contain about 100 billion yeast cells. That would be equal to around 800 million cells per ml.

>>

Gday

New to this board, but I am gleaning alot of info off it to start on my foray into wild beers, which will hopefully be very soon. You'll probably start getting questions from me within weeks!

I have recently been in touch with Wyeast labs, asking a few questions about yeast and oxygenation to help me dial in my pitching rates a bit, and they told me they base their 100billion cells on about 1.2 billion cells per mL, and I think it is around 85mL of yeast, adn 40mL of yeast nutrient in the pack, or something like that. When I re-pitch slurry I estimate it around 1.5-2 billion cells per mL, depending on trub content, and it *seems* to be not far off, so 900 million per mL in a starter sounds about right. Though 1400 billion cells does seem a bit excessive for a 10 gallon batch :-D Just curious, pitching the slurry from a 7L starter, do you get much lag time at all, and do you get any ester profile, or is it fairly devoid of yeast character?

All the best

Trent

Ubriaco
09/25/07 09:14 AM  
Re: Hard to believe - yeast growth
<Just curious, pitching the slurry from a 7L starter, do you get much lag time at all, and do you get any ester profile, or is it fairly devoid of yeast character?>

Sorry for the late reply, I am really busy and do not have the time usually to think about beer that often....unfortunately.

The last time I did this (friday) when I crash cooled I did not get the flocc that I anticipated. I attribute this to the fact that I was using two different lager strains and an ale strain together. I expressed my lamentations to one of my lab mates, saying how much I would have loved to have a centrifuge that can handle a 6000mL erlenmyer. Whats cool is she showed me bottles of 250 mL that are designed for our centrifuge. So I was able to use that. The cool thing is that I was able to see first hand how much cell mass I had, something I had never done before. It was virtually the same cell mass as about 10 White lab vials.

So on to your question. My lag times are usually on the scale of about 3 hours max. Depending on strain, I do usually get some ester production. With the strain blend I used on Sat. I will get almost nothing, and that is what I am after. When I do this with a Belgian strain, I will get some ester production simply because that much cell mass produces enough heat that the production of esters is not restrained that much. When I use WY American Ale II, WY American Ale, or Pacman, I get ester production but very limited. With those strains that is also what I am after.

So I guess to answer your question simply, it depends on yeast strain, but in general I do get a very clean profile.

 
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