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Like the BBB, the homeBBBrew board is not a club, just a place to talk about making beer. Is there a swap you would like to see happen? If we can find a few others who have something similar then lets do it!

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I just really like the work levifunk is doing!

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Author Replies
Al B
10/23/07 01:04 PM  
sugar swap mild
This could go in any direction, a pale mild is sorta like a bitter, so dark mild may be the way to go.
Al B
10/23/07 01:12 PM  
Re: sugar swap mild
or perhaps

Barclay Perkins from 1919 (via Ron Pattinson)

ewanzel
10/23/07 01:32 PM  
Re: sugar swap mild
although not part of the swap, I'll throw my dark house mild recipe out as a potential starting point for you all. I'm really happy with this one

6.5lbs M.O. 2row

1lb XYZ Sugar

.25lb 120L Crystal

.13lb Carafa

.13lb Roasted Barley

1.5oz EKG FWH

1oz Willamette 30 min.

single infussion at 150

Yeast- either Whitbread or London III

SteveG
10/23/07 01:41 PM  
Re: sugar swap mild
Jeez Al, I think you hit on something really good here. We could do a sugar thing AND a historical swap at the same time!! Can you grab and post the recipe from Rons site you had in mind? Finally I can use some of the brown malt I've bought.
Al B
10/23/07 02:07 PM  
Re: sugar swap mild
Well Steve, nice try on the brown malt - but there ain't any.........

OG 1039

57% Pale malt

10% Amber malt

4 % crystal (60L ??)

10% maize

19% sugar

1.15 lb/bbl hops ~ 0.85oz @ 25% historical differences ~ 1.07 oz/5gal (steeped in h20 @142-172F). Kettle carmelization a possibility. Mash thick ~ 156F

P.S. I did a BP porter recently. The steeping of the hops in water (not wort) does have bitterness w/out boiling due to specific gravity.

hey_kevin
10/23/07 02:23 PM  
Re: sugar swap mild
I've got the materials to do the 1919 Barclay Perkins one, but I'd rather do the 1933 X (mild) from Whitbread.

bp2.blogger.com/_CHrKKDU9290/RvrIfyi_f_I/AAAAAAAAAbM/NLtSnpfwyW0/s1600-h/Whitbread_recipes_1933_2.JPG

For the record, Ron's blog is here: barclayperkins.blogspot.com

cheers,

Kevin

SteveG
10/23/07 02:24 PM  
Re: sugar swap mild
Man, I hate percentages like 4% on such a small grist. Can I propose the following (I hate having to deal in grams!)...

5 lbs pale (I have marris otter)

1 lb sugar

.75 lb amber (if we can switch to brown I'll send everyone what they'll need!)

.75 lb maize

.25 lb crystal (I think I have Crisp 17L, I could send a little of that too).

For hops I have Fuggles, can we round that to an ounce and a quarter?

Al, are you not supposed to boil this?

Al B
10/23/07 02:40 PM  
Re: sugar swap mild
1933 Whit is OK, but do we really parti-gyle with LA (whatever that is).

Rounding off is more than fine. And if we can also aim for an IBU in the 20s for modern day familiarity. Supposedly after reading the historical jargon, it looks like they steeped hops in hot water and drain into the kettle. It seemed to work OK for the 1805 BP porter I just did. This might be a tad complicated.

Whatever we go with we should use ewanzels yeast suggestion - low attenuation, high flocculation

hey_kevin
10/23/07 02:44 PM  
Re: sugar swap mild
The 1933 Whitbread works out to something like:

73.2% Pale Ale malt

12.3% Crystal

14.5% Sugar

I recently did a parti-gyle thing that turned into 3 beers for me the 1933 porter and the Extra stout and another 5 gallon carboy that ended up at mild (1.036) gravity. I was pretty happy with it. I'm a 10 gallon batch kind of guy, usually so I'll have to figure out something to get more sugar or just do a small batch.

Here is the link with a boatload of historical Ron compiled info:

www.europeanbeerguide.net/beerale.htm

cheers,

Kevin

SteveG
10/23/07 03:00 PM  
Re: sugar swap mild
I like this better anyway, as alan might say its simpler!

5.75 lb pale

1 lb crystal

1 lb sugar

I'll steep hops if thats what everyone is doing but I see no problem just boiling. Is 1.25 oz Fuggles OK? A beer this light I might be able to brew without my left arm!

Al B
10/23/07 03:01 PM  
Re: sugar swap mild
OK. I'm fine w/ that recipe as well. Did you use inverted sugar earlier?
hey_kevin
10/23/07 03:40 PM  
Re: sugar swap mild
I actually just used sucrose. I hadn't really thought through the fact that they would have been using invert sugars.

cheers,

Kevin (who's been craving mild for quite a while)

SteveG
10/23/07 07:08 PM  
Re: sugar swap mild
Additional comment. In looking at this recipe nothing really strikes me as being all that historical. I mean it might be, but pale malt, crystal and sugar don't seem all that out there for todays brewing. That so varying from Rons recipe would not really matter all that much.

That being said I'd like to suggest a tweek to the recipe I already suggested. The best Mild I ever tasted came right out of one of Tom Bakers fermentors. I asked how he got all that flavor, he said he loaded it up with crystal. How about knocking the pale down a half pound and adding that to the crystal? So then it be 5.25 lbs, 1.5 lbs and a pound of sugar.

hey_kevin
10/23/07 08:02 PM  
Re: sugar swap mild
It's not that out there, that's kind of what I like about it. It will definitely let the sugar differences shine through.

I tend to think that the simpler things are the better...

cheers,

Kevin

SteveG
10/24/07 07:30 AM  
Re: sugar swap mild
I agree kev, not saying simple is not a good thing. Just saying that a historical recipe is less compelling if it is in line with common practices. If it used a malt approach we were not used to, staying strictly to it would be cool. But as long as it seems pretty normal I think there is no forgotton brewing secret to rediscover. So then tweeking the grain bill would not hurt anything - providing folks are down with the tweek.
Al B
10/24/07 08:31 AM  
Re: sugar swap mild
There is one other historical aspect to consider that may substitute for the extra crystal - kettle caramelization. By boiling down a portion of the first runnings into a carmelized syrup - then adding the rest of the wort. Like I said, this can go in many directions.

I tend to think if a historical brew is to be considered, then the older practice(s) should be embraced if possible -although in 1933, I'm not sure if the 1800 methods apply. Whichever way we go, hopefully using 1 lb of the sugars will offer differences in the tastings.

SteveG
10/24/07 09:27 AM  
Re: sugar swap mild
Huh. Can't say if 19th and 20th century practices are the same but I think the notion of involving a historical practice is compelling. So maybe you'd try to make an extra gallon of extract, pull thst aside and maybe boil it down to a quart? Interesting, I'm about to start a cider thread - give it a read.
Al B
10/24/07 10:08 AM  
Re: sugar swap mild
Not an extra gallon, more like a quart.
SteveG
10/24/07 10:10 AM  
Re: sugar swap mild
boiling the quart down to what?
Al B
10/24/07 10:15 AM  
Re: sugar swap mild
A think gooey syrup ( i didn't measure it) you will know before it burns when to cease heating - its like making roux.
SteveG
10/24/07 10:45 AM  
Re: sugar swap mild
To get the cider to do that (it started at 1.046, a bit heavier than this wort would be) I had to reduce it by about a factor of 10. That is to say I started with a bit under 2.5 gallons and brought it down to 29 ounces, bit under a quart. Wasn't aiming for 29 ounces, thats just when it looked right. To do the same here it seems like the quart or wort would need to boil down to 3 or 4 ounces (closer to 3). Does that seem about right?
Al B
10/24/07 11:11 AM  
Re: sugar swap mild
Thats about right.

A similar alternate recipe was given for a Scottish ale in Zymurgy. One had lots of crystal, the other didn't but used caramelization instead. Anyway, we should get back to the recipe/method.

AL B
10/24/07 11:57 AM  
Re: sugar swap mild
OK. Lets see.....5 gal.....

5.75 lb pale

1 lb crystal (lovibond: ____________)

mash temp: _____________

1 lb sugar

1oz Fuggles or Goldings (steeped or boiled?)

Kettle carmelization: yes/no?

Whitbread 1098, pitch 64F, ferment 64-68F

SteveG
10/24/07 12:15 PM  
Re: sugar swap mild
I think I have a decent crystal stock, let me check to see what that is. I think its Crisp 17L. I'd favor a mash schedule of 125F 30 minutes, 150F however long. I'd also opt for Fuggles (got some without an immediate plan for use), I mentioned a boiling preference but actually I have never steeped. Upon further thought I'd be OK with giving that a try. Kettle carmelization, definately. I'm good with your yeast choice. Was that one I picked up for you? If so, I'll trade some crystal malt for some yeast!
Al B
10/24/07 12:52 PM  
Re: sugar swap mild
I have the yeast, yep. I have carastan 30L. I wasn't planning on a protein rest myself since the Pale I have is well- modified and I see that modern milds are single infusion. And I have Goldings, I think either will do fine.
hey_kevin
10/24/07 02:09 PM  
Re: sugar swap mild
Let's do fuggles, I have EKGs and WGVs, but they're pellets and I need to use at least some whole hops in my kettle.

I only have crystal 60 (and the simpson's extra dark 150 I think that is) and that'd be my preference to a much lighter crystal malt.

As for the caramelization, I'd be cool with that, especially as I got my way with the recipe...

I've got the Wyeast Whitbread smack pack so I'm totally cool with that.

Are there any questions I've missed?

cheers,

Kevin

Jim K
10/24/07 03:01 PM  
Re: sugar swap mild
A single step works for me. I would rather carmelize using a little more wort. I suggest a half gallon down to a pint.
Al B
10/24/07 06:16 PM  
Re: sugar swap mild
Whats up Jim....

1/2 gallon sounds better - especially if a light crystal is used?

mikehahn
10/25/07 01:04 AM  
Re: sugar swap mild
Hi, I just stumbled across this thread. Is everybody limited to the exact same recipe? Brewing styles and techniques would be the only differences. Sounds like fun. Any time line? mike
SteveG
10/25/07 07:18 AM  
Re: sugar swap mild
ideally everything is the same except the type of Belgian candy sugar used. 4 beer styles (and recipes), 4 sugars, 16 brewers.

BTW Jims suggested levels sound better to me as well. I do have a few pounds of Crisp 17L.

Jim K
10/25/07 10:01 AM  
Re: sugar swap mild
"especially if a light crystal is used?"

That is what I was thinking, Al.

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