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Al B
10/27/07 08:22 AM  
Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
So after the recent cider thread, something made me investigate Stille Nacht. No mention of honey on DeDolle's web site, but the importer states -

Pale malt

Nugget hops

APPLES + pale candi sugar

DeDolle yeast + lactobacterial fermentation.

SteveG
10/27/07 08:58 AM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
Apples - that's a new one. The primed with honey thing came from Mum herself during a tour of the brewery in '02. She definately outranks an importer!
SAH
10/27/07 11:28 AM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
Hope Mike T doesn't mind me quoting him;

As far as I can tell the beer contains just pale malt, white (candi) sugar, apples (juice or cider?), nugget hops and a yeast/bacteria blend. I would go with 80% Belgian pale malt with 20% white sugar by extract. They do an extended boil (about 5 hours) to get to 27 degrees plato (about 1.108). I would collect plenty of wort and boil down to 4.5 gallons then add Ĺ gallon of good quality apple juice or cider during cooling. Bitter with some Nuggets when there is about 60 minutes to go (maybe 25-30 IBU) and add a bit for dry hopping as well. Originally they got their yeast from Rodenbach, so the Roeselare blend would be a good place to start. Although now that Palm cut off their supply of the Rodenbach yeast it sounds like they just added lactobacillus.

I've got the boiled down cider, and would love to brew this soon. I'm definitely in for brewing this. Is the DeDolle yeast commericially available(or something close enough), or would I have to culture from a bottle?

Al B
10/27/07 11:44 AM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
The DeDolle yeast is likely WY Belgian wheat. I would also add the lacto with the yeast. Its probably primed w/ honey as Steve says too.

Al Boskeun

Mike T
10/29/07 08:52 AM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
My knowledge of the apples is from the importerís website as well. If it is true, I can't imagine there being that much of them in there.
SteveG
10/29/07 11:46 AM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
My tour of the brewery was shortly after then change that all De Dolle beers underwent after Rodenbach stopped providing yeast. Mum mentioned nothing of apples, but its possible times have changed since '02. This is probably a good question to ask across the street.
SteveG
10/29/07 12:09 PM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
Yep, tool 7 minutes to get a reply!

www.babblebelt.com/bbb_classic/readpost.html?id=1193673709

I think the apple theory has holes!

BPotts
11/03/07 01:29 PM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
This past spring I brewed a beer/cider hybrid with 6 lbs of malt and 3 gallons of cider, which is now finally fully conditioned.

Last night I tasted a bottle of Still Nacht from 2006, and to my surprise, there were some similarities in flavor to my cider beer. Very subtle indeed, but there was definitly a hint of that cider flavor in there.

I'm not sure if there are apples or not, but it wouldn't surprise if they used some.

Al B
11/03/07 01:48 PM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
If not, then perhaps the yeast description of DeDolle (WY belgain wheat) + the honey are th reasons.
SAH
11/04/07 10:19 PM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
I'm not sure if it will be a clone anymore, but just FYI - I plan on brewing it with apples(the boiled down cider) as we/I stated before. Worst case it will be Pomme Stille Nacht, which doesn't sound bad at all to me.
BPotts
11/05/07 05:34 PM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
how mucn apple syrup do you plan on using?
SAH
11/05/07 06:47 PM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
<<how mucn apple syrup do you plan on using? >>

Excellent question. I boiled ~1.5 gallons of apple juice( apples frozen, thawed, and pressed in a bladder press) down to a little less than a 1/4 of a gallon. What do you think about that amount for 4 or 5 gallons? I'd like an apple flavor that is present/perceptable without being the "star of the show" as it were. What do you guys think?

BPotts
11/05/07 08:12 PM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
Well...never used apple syrup but I always use (the standard?) 16 oz. of rock candi or 8 oz. of candi syrup and the flavor is always perceptible but not overpowering...
BPotts
11/05/07 08:12 PM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
....for 5 gallons.....
SAH
11/08/07 10:50 PM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
Brewed today, only 3 gallons. Hit 1.098, which is a little low maybe. Beeradvocate says;" Alcohol has gone from 8% to 12% in recent years due to better yeast performance; according to Kris Kerteler."

I'm hesitant to add more sugar just to up the gravity, hopefully it will finish a bit lower than the real thing. I imagine it might have more of an apple taste as well, but I'm not too concerned. It should be a tasty brew one way or another, which is what I was shooting for. I'm also going to add french oak cubes soaked in Carmenere Red wine to make it like the reserve, which as I understand it is aged in red wine barrels(possibly bordeaux?).

BPotts
11/09/07 08:29 AM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
So how much syrup did you end up using? Yeah, the reserve is aged in bordeaux barrels.
SAH
11/09/07 10:35 AM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
<<So how much syrup did you end up using? Yeah, the reserve is aged in bordeaux barrels.>>

I used all of it, when I pulled it out it was less than I remembered, less than 1/8 of a gallon - roughly 12 ounces, definitely less than a pound. The wort had a noticeable apple flavor, but was not very strong at all, and I imagine it will recede more once fermentation is complete.

BPotts
11/09/07 12:33 PM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
I would imagine so, I wonder what the fermentability is.... well, sounds good, let us know how it comes out
SAH
11/09/07 03:44 PM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
<<I would imagine so, I wonder what the fermentability is.... well, sounds good, let us know how it comes out>>

You think the apple syrup may not be very fermentable? I will let you know how it turns out.

BPotts
11/09/07 06:28 PM  
Re: Stille Nacht made w/ apples?!?!
No I think it would be very fermentable, as cider is in general, but I'm curious iof reducing it to syrup would effect the level at all.
 
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