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Sean White
10/30/07 09:20 AM  
1st Full Sour-Mash Started!!!
I just started a wit last night and I decided to sour mash it. I'm pretty excited!!!

It should have about a 20 hour mash, enough to get a little lacto without the funky shit you get from a long sour mash.

No question here, I'm just excited!!

Happy Feet
11/01/07 09:26 PM  
Re: 1st Full Sour-Mash Started!!!
Sean,

What temp. did you mash at and how did you keep the temp. stable? How much volume was it? What yeast?

Thanks,

Happy

Sean White
11/02/07 09:28 AM  
Re: 1st Full Sour-Mash Started!!!
I can't post a link here to my brewing blog, but if you go to Brewcommune.com, and go to "brew logs", and "Chupa La Homebrew, you can see the full recipe.

I kept the mash warm by mashing in to 150 and leaving the sucker in my oven, which was pre-warmed, but not on, overnight.

SteveG
11/02/07 09:51 AM  
Re: 1st Full Sour-Mash Started!!!
Sean, sure you can:

www.brewcommune.com/phpBB/weblog.php?w=20&sid=8cef902f0fa3acd1e0e1edf8311fa666

Ross
11/03/07 08:59 PM  
Re: 1st Full Sour-Mash Started!!!
FYI

From "Principles of Brewing Science" by George Fix, PhD

Page 50; paragraph two:

It must be emphasized that random contamination of the mash-for example, by overnight mashing-can lead to erratic results. Contamination can introduce undesirable microbes (e.g., butyric acid bacteria). These microbes are eliminated during wort boiling; however, their products have a pernicious way of surviving (at least in part) into the finished beer.

Sean White
11/05/07 12:20 PM  
Re: 1st Full Sour-Mash Started!!!
That's a good point and I'm not completely sold on sour mashing, but I've had some experience with it and I haven't found any nasty aromas or flavors in the finished beers I've made. I think if you keep the mash short, under 24 hours, it's usually OK.

My mash did not smell pleasant after 20 hours, but the wort tasted fine. I think any garbagy or spoiled aromas tend to be volatile and boil off.

If I notice any funky aromas or flavors in the finished beer though, I'll let ya know.

BPotts
07/14/08 09:54 PM  
Re: 1st Full Sour-Mash Started!!!
Sean, how did the sour mash work out for you?
Seanywonton (Sean White)
07/15/08 10:03 AM  
Re: 1st Full Sour-Mash Started!!!
I wasn't too impressed with the sourness it lent to the beer, but I did get a nice garbagey stink in my face when I lifted the pot lid. There was not much acidity in the final beer, but there were no off flavors from the process either.

I think the way to go in this, if anyone wants to go this route, is to pitch some lacto into the mash to get it going before the other stinky aspects of the mash go crazy. Maybe you could just let that go at 90 degrees for a while and I'll bet it would sour up nicely.

tankdeer
07/15/08 11:17 AM  
Re: 1st Full Sour-Mash Started!!!
I have tried this a couple times with very mixed results. Usually by collecting all the wort into my kettle, chilling to 90-100, and then tossing in a handful of unmashed grain.

The problem is the results are so variable. Sometimes it comes out great, sometimes it tastes like ass.

MarkO
07/15/08 05:27 PM  
Re: 1st Full Sour-Mash Started!!!
the butyric acid bacteria in my neck of the woods tend to make something that smells more like vomit than ass. Which is always nice.

I am wondering if you get similar results from unboiled wort as you do from the sour mash? That is something I have been meaning to try (but maybe not in midsummer).

tankdeer
07/15/08 06:30 PM  
Re: 1st Full Sour-Mash Started!!!
Mark, my no-boil berliner weisse did NOT taste like ass. Or vomit for that matter. It tasted like sour beer, and I was happy with that. ;-)

Now spontaneous fermentation, I haven't done that yet. (Although I am tempted)

MarkO
07/15/08 08:32 PM  
Re: 1st Full Sour-Mash Started!!!
Thanks for the info. I'd encourage you to give the spontaneous fermentations a shot, as I have had some good luck with them.

I was going to try a nonboiled weisse or wit some time in the near future. Did you heat yours at all, or add bacteria from a package?

tankdeer
07/15/08 09:41 PM  
Re: 1st Full Sour-Mash Started!!!
I will try a spontaneous shot someday. Maybe this fall. I live in San Diego but in the city so not sure what kind of bugs we have here. Hipster bugs I'm sure. ;-)

The hottest the bulk of the no-boil berliner got was during the sparge. 168-170. There was a small decoction taken so some was boiled, but not much. It did have bacteria in addition. A portion with a WLP001/Lacto blend and a portion with WY3191. The WY3191 portion will be included in the berliner swap.

MarkO
07/16/08 09:08 PM  
Re: 1st Full Sour-Mash Started!!!
I'm curious about how normal mash-out/sparge temps might affect the lactobacillus present on the grain -- that might have to be my next beer.

Thanks again for the info.

tankdeer
07/17/08 11:54 AM  
Re: 1st Full Sour-Mash Started!!!
Theoretically some of the lacto does survive. Albeit maybe not the majority. I think this is evident from the fact that few people were getting the desired sourness from using the WY3191 in their berliners, whereas mine has a very nice lactic twang to it.
Al B
07/17/08 01:34 PM  
Re: 1st Full Sour-Mash Started!!!
I'm really interested on how these Berliners differ from each other, and how 3191 stacks up. Seems the slurry BPotts gave me was smelling quite bretty than comercial examples. The lacto. is of interest too. Alot of Berliner buzz here.

A really great effort by SteveG and 100% B. clausennii was very interesting. I wonder how a blend would stack up using B. clausenii, some vigorous recultured Fantome lacto, and a German ale yeast would do.......I've seen ratios of lacto to yeast for initial pitch at 2:1 and at 4:1 - not sure which would be the way to go.

BPotts
07/18/08 12:08 PM  
Re: 1st Full Sour-Mash Started!!!
Al, the basically what I did for my berliner, minus the nuetral ale strain. My last all brett b & c beer was a berliner, to which I added fantome dregs after several months. It soured up nicely - dry a little horsey/bretty, and nicely tart.

I wonder what the ratio of the 3191 blend was, I know WY/WL always under pitch the bugs/bacteria...

 
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