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SAH
11/12/07 03:20 PM  
De Dolle Oerbier Clone
I just had the reserve 2005 this past weekend, and was very impressed(haven't had the 'regular' one). I was further suprised to learn it was a 13% ABV beer, never would have guessed. The DeDolle website doesn't give many clues, just the hop used and that it uses Lacto. I don't have a pure Lacto strain yet, but Pedio is coming in on Friday. Since they both produce lactic acid can I just use that? Maybe expecting it to be a bit more sour(not really a problem)?

Also, should I just brew a Sour Brown recipe(got a good one?) with the base grains upped, primary with a clean strain, then add the Pedio(or Lacto if absolutely necessary)? The beer was very brown, no red at all to my eye, what does this indicate about the grain bill?

I saved the dreggs of the bottle, and will try culturing it up, but it has Kriek dreggs too, so not to sure what I'd get.

Thanks for any thought/input.

SAH
11/12/07 04:35 PM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
From distributor:

"Since 2000 we started a new yeast strain for Oerbier wich makes it no more acid with aging. In 2004 a new propagator is in function wich will restore the old Oerbier taste, we and a lot of beerlovers allover the world hope."

So, is the '05 reserve back to how the beer tasted before 2000?

Also on distributor:

"Oerbier is brewed from no less than 6 malts."

SAH
11/12/07 05:42 PM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
After much searching:

From Lambic Digest:

From Roger Protz, in The European Beer Almanac, lists the ingredients as:

Munich malt, amber malt, torrefied malt, candy sugar, Belgium Spalt, Czech Saaz and Kent Goldings hops. 26 units of bitterness. Top fermenting yeast.

Also found that they pre-2000 they most likely used the Rodenbach yeast, and that now may have aquired some again.

Is torrefied malt most likely torrefied barley?

Mike T
11/13/07 11:39 AM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
The reserva is a great beer, I’ve had two great bottles and one so-so bottle. It is amazing how different it is from the “standard” version.

Pedio can produce much more sourness than lacto, around twice if I remember correctly. I say give it a try, but it may be much more sour.

No idea about the torrified malt, but it probably wouldn't matter too much if it is wheat or barley.

Good luck

PS – You are a sour beer brewing machine

Baums
11/13/07 05:25 PM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
I'd use pedio since I think you'd be lucky to find a lacto that will sour the beer once there's ethanol in it. Also, pedio is what really gives/gave most of the sourness in the Rodenbach culture.
SAH
11/13/07 08:46 PM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
Thanks guys, Pedio it is.

<<PS – You are a sour beer brewing machine >>

I'm just trying to get the odds in my favor Mike! All that waiting also drives me to brew. I have NO PROBLEM waiting once something is in the bottle, but in the fermenter it can be taxing to wait - and I know I have a long wait.

SAH
11/13/07 09:26 PM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
I hope that last reply didn't sound angry, the caps were just for emphasis. Just trying to say that I brew often because if something takes a year and doesn't turn out right, I want back-ups. And for some reason(maybe my wine collection) I have no problem setting bottles aside for proper long-term aging, but waiting on carboys sometimes makes me anxious....so I brew more.
Mike T
11/14/07 08:32 AM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
I meant it as a compliment. I wish I had the effort to brew more often. Recently I haven’t even had the effort to make a batch of kombucha on a weeknight, and that takes 20 minutes tops.
Ryan
11/14/07 08:08 PM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
MikeT

Get your butt in gear dude. I keep going to your site to see what you're up to and find no updates. I'm looking to learn man...its hard when you lazy bozos quit on us lower downs.

Mike T
11/14/07 09:43 PM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
Its a dual issue, both the laziness to make stuff and also the laziness to post it. Although I did just bottle a Brett'ed RIS stout... Give me 20 minutes.
SAH
11/16/07 10:06 PM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
So what do you guys think about the grain bill?

Munich malt, amber malt, torrefied malt, candy sugar, Belgium Spalt, Czech Saaz and Kent Goldings hops. 26 units of bitterness. Top fermenting yeast.

I think I'll go with a 10% ABV instead of the 13% which just seems a bit high to worry about handling correctly.

The thing that struck me about the beer was that it wan't red at all, and it didn't taste fruity/cherry(like other examples).

Can you help me to formulate a recipe with ths grains?

Shot in the dark:

60% Munich

20% Amber(make my own amber by roasting 2-row)

10% Torrified Barley

10% Sugar

Not married to it....

SAH
11/20/07 11:33 PM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
Brewing this tomorrow, using yeast(etc?) cultured from a bottle of the real stuff for primary fermentation. Afterwards I'll add straight Pedio. Shooting for a final ABV of 10%, going to mash high to leave some good stuff for the Pedio.
BPotts
12/14/07 10:14 PM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
Scored a sixer of the 2006 Reserva tonight, only 40 bones!! Can't wait to taste one!
SAH
12/15/07 10:31 PM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
BPotts where'd you get them?
BPotts
12/15/07 10:41 PM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
Went over to the foodery last night in philly. I've been getting to know the one manager there and he pointed them out to me...got the last six they had. From what i understand they only received one case or something like that. Right place at the right time....and for 6 and change a bottle? Sure beats $15 a piece @ monk's.

Cracked one last night, the rest will go in the cellar. Boy, what an incredible beer. Reminded me of why I started trying to make high gravity sour ales!

ChrisPr
12/17/07 11:34 PM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
I prefer the Stille Nacht Reserva 2005 to the Oerbier Reserva 2005. Just had the Oerbier Reserva 2006. First time available in Portland, I still have 4 2005s I got from the one case Seattle was alloted last year.

Sorry I'm late, but the malt looks a little heavy on the Munich, doesn't it (I'd think maybe 1/3 to 40%). Maybe not, and it's not going to matter a ton. If you toast your own Amber, and do it same day, that could be really nice. You'll still get a great beer if the buggies work well. I think they must add significant sugar to get to 13%. Also, doesn't DeDolle sometimes use honey, or am I losing it? Good luck.

SAH
12/18/07 01:12 AM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
ChrisPr, I was just going by the supposed grains someone learned DeDolle used. I did roast my own amber on brewday, the beer tastes great, but obviously has a long way to go. When it dries out and sours I think I'll have a winner. We'll see though. They apparently use honey in Stille Nacht, but I have not seen it mentioned as used in the Oerbier.
SAH
01/05/08 07:32 PM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
Hey, a pellicle seems to be barely forming on this one - but it's still in its primary glass fermenter. Should I leave it or rack it? I think its the 'norm' to leave pLambics with all the sediment/etc, but to rack sour browns off? However, I'd rather leave it as is, as long as it won't be harmful to do so. What do you think?
SAH
01/06/08 11:10 AM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
Can I leave it in primary for the long haul?
Cisco
01/06/08 11:24 AM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
Yes, leave it undisturbed.
cmillward
04/08/08 10:43 AM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
SAH, what was the recipe you ended up using (if you don't mind sharing) and how's it going?
Mike T
04/08/08 03:00 PM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
I'd be interested in hearing as well, I'm planning on cooking up something similar as well.
SAH
04/08/08 10:58 PM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
I used the basic recipe/percentages above(for a ~1.090 wort), but split the munich percentage with half Pils I believe. It is doing very well I think. I have only tasted it after primary fermetation, when it was very sweet still. I added Roeselare, Al B's Bugfarm chips to it, as well as a few commercial dreggs(Fantome,Cantillon,Oude Beersel,etc). Its pellicle was broken up during my move, but has reformed. It only has an airlock, no dowel treatment for this one as yet. It is still on its primary yeast cake. I have high hopes for this one, but it has a ways to go. Mike T, and whoever else, it'd be great if you gave 'cloning' this one a shot. The more shots we take, the greater the odds at getting something close to this amazing beer.
SAH
04/08/08 11:14 PM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
Sorry about the vagueness of the recipe info, my notes(if you can call them that) are not good to begin with, and some of them, including this one, are in a box somewhere. If you have any more specific questions I'll do my best to answer them. Hops were added at/for bittering only. The beer is indeed dark brown without any red color at all(simlar to the real thing). Its definitly going to need oak cubes added at some point for that oaky/vanilla you get in the real thing. Anything else????
cmillward
04/09/08 10:09 AM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
Thanks for the update, SAH. I think the only two questions I still have are, did you pitch another yeast (like 3942) for the primary and then add the bugs to secondary?

And what hop amounts did you ended up using?

Like Mike T, I'm thinking of doing something in a similar vein, though probably going to target the standard Oerbier (because I'm a little impatient right now).

SAH
04/09/08 11:23 PM  
Re: De Dolle Oerbier Clone
The primary yeast was culured from the bottle('05 Reserve), and a bottle of kriek(the 'special' cherry kind). I was at Monks Cafe in Philly and brought a sanitized very small jar of wort and dumped the dreggs in, then stepped up the starter and pitched it. No idea what was in there, but it got the job done. Secondly the hops were just for about 25 IBU's. Good luck.
 
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