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11/19/07 12:55 PM  
Spices...tea, ticture, or toss em' in...best metho
I will be brewing this over the long holiday weekend:

Spiced Rye Saison / Rye Pale Ale (10 Gallon Split Batch)

To be Brewed: Thanksgiving weekend 2007


OG 1.061

FG 1.015

IBU 30

ABV 5.9 %



Boil Volume 12 gallons

Batch Size 10 gallons

Yeast 75% AA


9lbs Belgian Pils

9lbs Optic

4lbs Rye

1 Crystal 20L


2oz Cascade (FWH)

1oz Mount Hood (60 min)

1.5oz Willamette (15 min)

.5oz Mount Hood (2 min)

Mash-In at 130*F for 20 minutes

Mash at 150*F for 45 minutes

Sparge at 162*F for 15 minutes

Yeast- 5 gallons WLP Saison yeast

5 gallons US-05

(both fermented at ambient temp of 68*F)

My question is regarding spicing the saison half of this batch...I'm looking to spice it with corriander, blood orange zest, cardamom pod, and vanilla bean in the secondary. I know that you can just muddle and add the spices in at secondary,or make a tea by heating the spices on the stove/cool and throw them in, or make an alcohol tincture with them before pitching them in the secondary?

I've done all 3 methods in the past, and I think each method has its pros and cons, so I looking to the board to find out what everyone feels in the best/most effective method for adding spices to the secondary.

Any thoughts?

My thinking is that a combination of these three methods may be best with this spice mix...

1- add vanilla bean straight to secondary

2- make a tincture with the corriander and add to secondary

3- make a tea with the cardamom and orange zest, cool, and add to secondary

Any thoughts?

Sean White
11/19/07 03:34 PM  
Re: Spices...tea, ticture, or toss em' in...best m
I think vanilla is best added in the secondary, yeah, and the others, for me, go in some time between 5 minutes and flame-out depending on the recipe.

In other news, please excuse the unsolicited recipe advice, but it seems like your going for quite an ambitious brew that I'm worried might end up being a barrage of flavors! Cardamom is extremely potent. And with crystal in your grain bill I'm pretty sure you will have a hard time drying the beer to saison standards, although you may hit 1.015.

Maybe in that case you should think about a tea so you can taste your fermented wort before deciding on spices. Best of luck!

11/19/07 04:04 PM  
Re: Spices...tea, ticture, or toss em' in...best m
Thanks for the feedback Sean, and I appreciate the "unsolicited recipe advice." I not hung up on style guidelines per se, but running the numbers with the crystal put me with the FG at 1015, and both were to style with the software I used. Although not stylistically traditional for the saison, I was including the crystal to help balance and smooth out the rye flavor. As you probably gathered from OP, my goal in this is to create 2 distinct beers from one wort (stocks are a bit low). With that being said, I respect your opinion and will give it some more thought.

Regarding the spices... I know the SOP is to add most of them durring the end of the boil. As far as the specifics for a 5 gallon batch I was thinking 1/2oz corriander, 1 pod cardamom (I'm aware of it's potent nature from making Chai from scratch at home), 1oz blood orange zest, and 1/2-1 vanilla pod. You may be right that there could be too much going on with this one...I'll have to give it some thought regarding flavor and balance. thanks for your comments and any other thoughts or feedback are always appreciated.

11/19/07 04:53 PM  
Re: Spices...tea, ticture, or toss em' in...best m
Ditch the crystal and the cardemom. I wouldn't use more than about 2 heaping teaspoons of whole coriander, then crush it. Add the coriander and orange zest for the last 10 minutes. The vanilla may also overpower things and is not correct for a Saison. Remember that a well made Belgian beer with spices should not allow any of the spicing to be easily recognizable. All the flavors should marry well.

You also may have a stuck fermentation with WLP Saison yeast with such a low fermentation temperature. That yeast strain does very well with temps in the high 80s and very low 90s (just like DuPont does with this strain).

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