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Dave I
12/04/07 03:34 PM  
Big Brew Swap? I May Have a Recipe . . .
Couple of quick questions:

1) Is there any Big Brew swap planned for the immediate future? I know one was discussed but does not seem to have come to fruition.

2) I have a Baltic Porter recipe that I think I am making that would be good for a Winter '08. If anybody has any criticisms of it, please let me know. My beer that I am currently drinking has Munich, Dark Munich, and Vienna Malts for the base malts (no Pale or Pilsner malts). This time, I think I am going all-Munich (light & dark) for the base grains, pretty much a roasty Doppelbock sort of thing.

Anyway, here is my planned recipe that I am planning to brew in January and drink at the end of '08, and I am open to criticism.

Baltic Porter

Stats

OG 1.118

FG 1.030

IBU 42

ABV 11.4 %

SRM 49

Specifics

Boil Volume 7.0 gallons

Batch Size 5.5 gallons

Yeast 75% AA

Estimated Brewhouse Efficiency: 60%

Style Comparison

Low High

OG 1.035 1.118 1.050

FG 0.098 1.030 1.012

IBU 8 42 22

SRM 2 49 8

ABV 3.5 11.4 5.1

Fermentables

% Weight Weight (lbs) Grain Gravity Points Color

43.2 % 15.00 Munich Light 54.0 21.8

43.2 % 15.00 Munich Dark 49.1 49.1

5.8 % 2.00 Crystal 120L 6.3 43.6

2.9 % 1.00 Toasted Oats 2.7 0.4

2.9 % 1.00 CaraPils 3.6 0.3

2.2 % 0.75 Chocolate Wheat 2.4 47.7

34.75 118.1

Optional

1.00 Tettnanger @ Flameout

1.00 Hallertau Mittelfruh @ Flameout

Yeast: Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager yeast Cake

Other

Hungarian Oak Cubes: 1 oz. Checked weekly in secondary

Licorice Root: 1 oz. Likely last 15 minutes of the boil

Overall boil: 90 minutes

-Cheers

SteveG
12/04/07 03:44 PM  
Re: Big Brew Swap? I May Have a Recipe . . .
Actually there is a 4 part swap waiting in the wings. It involves 16 people and is divided into 4 groups (of 4). Each group is doing a specific style - in fact a specific recipe except each person is using a different from of Belgian candy sugar (soft blonde, soft dark, liquid dark and liquid amber).
Dave I
12/04/07 03:53 PM  
Re: Big Brew Swap? I May Have a Recipe . . .
<<Actually there is a 4 part swap waiting in the wings. It involves 16 people and is divided into 4 groups (of 4). Each group is doing a specific style - in fact a specific recipe except each person is using a different from of Belgian candy sugar (soft blonde, soft dark, liquid dark and liquid amber)>>

I would have loved to have been a part of that. With my daughter I was not sure if I was going to be able to brew in time for that so I did not participate. I would love to read the tasting transcripts if/when you make them available.

So Steve, any comments on the Baltic Porter recipe, positive or negative? Not sure if anybody else on this board makes them or not.

-Cheers

SteveG
12/04/07 04:56 PM  
Re: Big Brew Swap? I May Have a Recipe . . .
I think your gravity target is way too high. I have had awesome Baltics that were 5%. That's what really impresses me about them, they can taste really big without the huge grainbill. Certainly they can be stronger than that, but it looks to me more like you're making a barley wine. Pretty low percentage of dark grains in the bill.
Scott Jackson
12/04/07 06:22 PM  
Re: Big Brew Swap? I May Have a Recipe . . .
I will post my Baltic Porter recipe for you to look at as a comparison. It is at home so I will post it tonight. I agree the gravity on yours is high.
John A
12/04/07 06:41 PM  
Re: Big Brew Swap? I May Have a Recipe . . .
I brew a couple 5 gallon batches a year.

1.070 og

1.018 fg

35 ibu's

single mash rest at 155 for 90 minutes.

pils and munich split 50 50

.5lbs cara munich 3

2oz chocolate

4oz black patent

tett at 60 minutes

wlp bock yeast 1 gallon starter

2 weeks primary

3 day d-rest

3 months lagering at 34

SteveG
12/04/07 07:03 PM  
Re: Big Brew Swap? I May Have a Recipe . . .
As long as we're ponying up recipes...

I should mention that though I've had awesome 5% Baltics I'm not good enough to make one that light with the double-bocky character Baltics can have. Gravity-wise mine is a weeking compared to DaveI's, but its still on the upper end of what I personally feel a Baltic should be.

TEQUILA STREET BALTIC PORTER

6 lb. Pilsner Malt

5 lb. Munich

2 lb. Melanoiden Malt

1 lb. Karafe Dehusked II

1 lb. Chocolate

1 lb. 90L Crystal

1 lb. SpecialB

.75 oz. Northern Brewer 60m

.75 oz. Northern Brewer 45m

.50 oz. EKG 30m

.25 oz, Northern Brewer 30m

.75 oz. Tettnanger 20m

WY2633 Octoberfest Lager Blend

OG: 1075

I cold mash the Karafe Dehusked II and Chocolate malts. I think it was Rich Link who turned me onto that. After the first go I was hooked, I'll never mash dark grains in a Baltic again. I was originally going to soak some oak beans in great trequila then put them in the beer. Turns out it came out so to my liking that I couldn't bare to taint it.

Dave I
12/04/07 09:04 PM  
Re: Big Brew Swap? I May Have a Recipe . . .
<<I will post my Baltic Porter recipe for you to look at as a comparison. It is at home so I will post it tonight. I agree the gravity on yours is high.>>

I'd love to see it.

What I am going for is something like a Doppelbock with an integrated roastiness, if that makes sense. My current Baltic's roastiness just kind of stands at the forefront a bit much, hence opting for a smaller roasted grain percentile. I would like to let subtleties of the other malts shine through a bit.

As for the gravity, I was aiming it to more of a rich, high-gravity Doppelbock with a smooth/light sort of Schwarzbier roastiness, coffee-like and chocolate-like notes. Sort of a cross between a Doppelbock, Baltic Porter, and a Barleywine.

That being said, I am open to criticism of the recipe. If I would be better off with a more normal Baltic Porter gravity and grist I am open to giving it a whirl.

-Cheers

SteveG
12/05/07 07:00 AM  
Re: Big Brew Swap? I May Have a Recipe . . .
It all depends what you want to brew Dave, if your target is a hybrid Doppelbock, Baltic Porter, and a Barleywine then I could not comment having never made a beer like that. But I'm not so sure you'll find the coffee and chocolate notes you're looking for. I think you need dark grains to do that, and as I mentioned I think they are best applied cold mashed. Its worth mention that IMO to achieve richness and "a smooth/light sort of Schwarzbier roastiness, coffee-like and chocolate-like notes", extreme gravity is not the answer. Carnegie porter has all that for 5%. That's hard to do - at least for me - but I know I can find that going only a little stronger.

Ryan
12/05/07 07:21 AM  
Re: Big Brew Swap? I May Have a Recipe . . .
For what its worth

I recently heard (Jamil) that you can get real benefits in terms of flavor and aroma by grinding the dark grains (chocolate in this case) in a coffee grinder. Get them down to fine powder and then, I would guess, add them late in the mash.

Never tried it myself.

Dave I
12/05/07 09:19 AM  
Re: Big Brew Swap? I May Have a Recipe . . .
<<Its worth mention that IMO to achieve richness and "a smooth/light sort of Schwarzbier roastiness, coffee-like and chocolate-like notes", extreme gravity is not the answer.>>

Thanks Steve. Good to note. Actually, really good to hear that. I posted my desired end result specifically so that if I was totally going about it the wrong way I could change my intended recipe.

<<It all depends what you want to brew Dave, if your target is a hybrid Doppelbock, Baltic Porter, and a Barleywine then I could not comment having never made a beer like that. But I'm not so sure you'll find the coffee and chocolate notes you're looking for.>>

Part of me still wants to make the above recipe just to push the envelope on what I have done. I am curious how it will turn out. What I am guessing is a malty, chewy sort of malty backbone, maybe some vinous qualities from the high alcohol, with a trace of roasted malts in the background, and something that will age and smooth out over a long time kind of like Samichlaus. At that point I have probably moved way away from a Baltic Porter and really am just making an upper limit Doppelbock with a bit more roast than what is to style.

However, I am thinking I could sort of double dip and try my Doppelbock recipe and then do a second-runnings Baltic Porter, adding a bit more roasted grains to the mash tun before doing the second runnings. If need be I could add some light DME to it to get it somewhere around 1.060 to 1.070 OG. We will see. I might just try a standard Baltic Porter first and then use that yeast cake for my Doppelbock, or split the yeast cake from a planned Pilsner between the two, obviously keeping some dried yeast on-hand in case the Bavarian Lager yeast was tired and pooped out on me.

And Ryan, thanks for the note on coffee grinding malts. I know Jamil has a planned Podcast on Baltic Porters. Not sure if he lists any recipe(s) for them in his new book on brewing classic styles or not. Just trying to get a feel for what people are using in their BP recipes.

-Cheers

SteveG
12/05/07 09:33 AM  
Re: Big Brew Swap? I May Have a Recipe . . .
Ah, now you're talking. Mind you I totally understand a desire to make (however you define it) a barley wine. Wouldn't be a brew year for me without one. The second running approach may well work out just fine. I'd still cold mash, but whether you do that or go coffee grinder your plan is making more sense to me now.

>>Just trying to get a feel for what people are using in their BP recipes.<<

IMO recipes get a lot more exciting when the "secret ingredient" is not a grain you've never played with but an actual new approach to process. I think process enhancements tend to take a back seat to recipe ingredients simply cause adding a grain feels more familiar thus safer. If not this time around, one of these days futz with cold mashing...

Dave I
12/05/07 09:49 AM  
Re: Big Brew Swap? I May Have a Recipe . . .
<<IMO recipes get a lot more exciting when the "secret ingredient" is not a grain you've never played with but an actual new approach to process. I think process enhancements tend to take a back seat to recipe ingredients simply cause adding a grain feels more familiar thus safer.>>

Part of it for me is probably reading too much in the BJCP guidelines. The mention of using Munich and Vienna Malts as the base grains seems ripe with all sorts of possibilities. Some people use Pilsner Malt, some dark grains, and maybe a pinch of Munich or Vienna. Some use a lot of Munich and a decent amount of Pils. I have also heard some success stories about all-Munich Malt Barleywines and Doppelbocks, so those less-common grists interest me.

That said, I am totally open to new techniques and approaches. That is part of the appeal of wild brews; it is something new for me to try, which is interesting and challenging to me, and I generally cannot easily go out to the store and buy these fringe beers.

<<If not this time around, one of these days futz with cold mashing...>>

I might as well try it this time. I usually add my dark grains right before I sparge, which is supposed to (if I remember correctly) add a bit more roastiness than cold-steeping, but still in a smooth fashion. I like it. However, I have thought about trying cold-steeping for a while and have known about it for years, so why not?

Thanks for all of the advice thus far.

-Cheers

 
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