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neonmeate
12/06/07 02:29 PM  
lacto only beer?
After letting my last berliner go with lacto (from yoghurt) for two days before adding the sacch, I wondered what a beer would be like fermented with ONLY lacto - would it have no alcohol? Analcoholic yoghurt beer might be nice for breakfast. would it carbonate in the bottle though?
Baums
12/06/07 06:13 PM  
Re: lacto only beer?
If you're lucky, the lacto will give you a full percent (w/v) of lactic acid, by fermenting a full percent (w/v) of sugar (i.e. 1 degree Plato or 4 SG points). Most likely it will be less than that.

You could get trace amounts of alcohol, CO2, and acetic acid as well, if you use a heterofermentive strain.

I think using some late runnings at 1.010, soured with lactobacillus and maybe fermented out later with b. lambicus to get some nice esters, would be interesting to try.

neonmeate
12/07/07 04:23 PM  
Re: lacto only beer?
Do you mean lacto will only consume 4 grav pts max before the acid puts it to sleep?
Baums
12/07/07 04:34 PM  
Re: lacto only beer?
From what I've seen it would be lucky to make it that far. And I'm not sure how far you'd really want it to go anyway--"hard" lambic has ~0.5% lactic acid.

BTW sugars are changed into lactic acid by these bugs almost weight-for-weight. So 0.5% lactic acid by weight would require about 0.5% sugar by weight which is 0.5 degrees Plato or 2 SG points. So, I'm not sure how much more than 2 points you'd WANT it to eat--at that point it will be as sour as hard gueuze or a particularly sour batch of unblended Rodenbach.

neonmeate
12/07/07 08:47 PM  
Re: lacto only beer?
thanks baums that explains it well. i'm surprised it's such a small amount of extract eaten by the lacto.

when i left the yoghurt in there without sacch yeast for two days, i kept it 35C+ with a sleeping bag and it put up a white fluffy krauesen and everything, the lacto looked really active so i thought it might be possible to ferment a whole batch down with the stuff. anyway this latest berliner is certainly as sour as a gueuze... might blend some 10% into a saison

thanks for your explanation - wild brews was no help on the matter

Baums
12/10/07 03:59 PM  
Re: lacto only beer?
I'm really interested in your yogurt procedure. What brand did you use? Any off flavors or did the lacto seem to produce only lactic acid and nothing else?
neonmeate
12/11/07 04:14 PM  
Re: lacto only beer?
organic yoghurt - about 200g of it pitched into 1026 wort at 45C, staying at about 35 for two days - i realised after i used it that the non-fat stuff wouldve been better! but it was just full fat organic natural yoghurt - a particularly nice one that i like for its acidity. says it contains acidophilus, bifidus and casei cultures. I'm in Australia and the brand is Jalna Biodynamic.

As I said before the lactic fermentation was very strong. A thick creamy white kraeusen that left a yoghurt ring round the carboy. the yoghurt just settled to the bottom afterwards, no bits of white stuff floating in it. after two days i threw in a sachet of US56 which was over and done with very quickly.

tastewise really nice clean yoghurty sourness. very sour in fact. no acetic flavours or anything. certainly tastes a LOT cleaner than my last berliner that i did with brett anomalus!

Baums
12/12/07 09:41 AM  
Re: lacto only beer?
Thanks!
neonmeate
12/13/07 02:54 PM  
Re: lacto only beer?
I might add that i have cracked open a bottle of the blend i did with this stuff and a saison (which had brett brux) - very good! although the berliner only makes up 20% of it it adds a great sour finish to the flavour. got the idea from farmhouse ales to add lacto to saison and it seems to make it taste a lot more "belgian"... i think i'll do a little soured proportion of my next saison with 3711.
 
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