Welcome to the homeBBBrew board!
Like the BBB, the homeBBBrew board is not a club, just a place to talk about making beer. Is there a swap you would like to see happen? If we can find a few others who have something similar then lets do it!

NO SPECIFIC REASON FOR THIS LINK...
I just really like the work levifunk is doing!

PASSWORD PROTECTION: READ THIS BEFORE POSTING!
YOUR BBB USERNAME AND PASSWORD WILL NOT WORK ON THIS BOARD! If you want to post, you need to read this.

HomeBBBrewBoard
HotLinks!
Brettanomyces Brewing
E-Symposium Transcript!

Trouble making Trappists?
Discover Liquid Candy Syrup!
See what color impact to expect from liquid candy.

Search for:
Author Replies
Iordan
01/01/08 11:39 PM  
Roeselare Blend Health
Here's the story:

My LHBS gave me a pack of Roeselare blend for free because it was 18 months old. I brewed a Flanders red 2 weeks ago, fermented it with American ale for the primary and pitched the pack in the secondary. I am using a wooden dowel for oxygen diffusion. The pack was stored in a fridge for the whole time and I used a healthy portion of unmalted wheat so that the bacteria would have enough food to last the long fermentation. The question is do you think there will be enough yeast to perform the sour fermentation; or should I get a newer pack (I know a store that has one)?

Baums
01/02/08 09:39 AM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
With the amount of time you're investing in making this beer, I'd personally choose to invest 6 more bucks to get the newer pack.
SteveG
01/02/08 01:00 PM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
Ha! I looked and this and started thinking in terms of microbiology - ultimately figuring I should just let Al say something. But Baums is right - in more ways than one. Now-a-days it costs like $20-25 to make 5 gallons of beer, why risk it in the hopes of saving $6? Especially when, if your yeast is viable, you could make a few batches with it (thus STILL saving $6 or more down the road!)? Adding the time spent on brew day and the six months of carboy space it will take up makes the cost of a reliable poutch meager indeed.

Iordan, old gift poutches still have value. Boil up a little extract, put it in a smaller vessel and see if the yeast comes to life. If it does you can make beer with it at a later date. If not your just out a pound of so of extract.

SteveG
01/02/08 01:02 PM  
Silly me
I should have said it takes AT LEAST $20 - 25 to make a batch. $25 hardly tops out the possible cost!
Iordan
01/02/08 02:00 PM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
I already pitched the Roeselare blend, but I will probably get a newer pack.
Cisco
01/02/08 02:26 PM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
"...and the six months of carboy space it will take up"

My Roeselare blend has been in the carboys for two years now. One carboy had sour cherry concentrate added. I guess it's time to think about bottling it!!!!!!

Iordan
01/03/08 12:59 AM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
I was planning on leaving it in there for 12-18 months.

I sent Wyeast an email and they responded promptly, love the cutomer service. The technician said that the brett was the most likely to survive and that the rest of the bacteria might not be so lucky. I have decided to buy another pack.

Dave I
01/07/08 11:48 AM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
I bought two Roeselare smack packs, in case one did not make it. Both were produced in June, 2007. Any guesses how long I should wait for them to expand before assuming they are not viable? It has been three or four days and nothing.

-Cheers

Cisco
01/07/08 01:42 PM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
Don't even bother with the smack pack expecting normal results. Just dump the entire contents into a flask with fresh OG 40 malt solution and keep feeding it for a couple weeks.
SteveG
01/07/08 02:01 PM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
Sorry for being redundant here, but I want to back up what Cisco is saying. I had a few Roeselare blend beers in swaps here and my reaction was always the same. They seemed lacking in classic Flemish red character though there was a budding presence. And every time I said the same thing - this yeast has not yet come of age. It was my belief from what I tasted that a Roeselare pack needed at least a second generation to become authentic, probably more. When I finally tried the blend myself it started really giving me impressive results by the fifth generation. To be fair, Al had it for generations 2-5, maybe it came around faster than I'm saying. But generation one? No way.

IMO you simply cannot treat a Roeselare smack pack like its just another yeast. It can give you great results - if you are willing to put in enough effort.

Cisco
01/07/08 02:20 PM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
"if you are willing to put in enough effort."

.....and time, a lot of time.

Mike T
01/07/08 03:40 PM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
I really like the results I got off a first generation pitch (clean primary with WLP530, smacked pack and pitched right into secondary). It took quite a bit of time though, 12 months in secondary with an oak oxygen diffuser (followed by 4 months in the bottle for the plain, and 4 months in tertiary with blackberries for the fruited half).

Steve, when you say 5th generation, what do you mean? Were the beers primaried with the blend and then the resulting yeast/bacteria pitched directly into the next primary?

My blend is on its second “generation” now, the oak from the first batch was simply added to the next batch after it was finished with primary. That beer is only 4 months old, but the first tasting revealed a beer that already is developing a nice Brett aroma and a hint of sourness.

SteveG
01/07/08 04:22 PM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
I used the pack as the primary fermenter then passed the slurry off to Al. He returned saying it was generations older. He didn't make a bunch of beers (thats the only way I know to rack up the generations), he used microbiologist magic to add generations in the lab. Then I made 3 more beers with it, in each case pitching on the old cake.
Dave I
01/07/08 05:40 PM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
"Just dump the entire contents into a flask with fresh OG 40 malt solution and keep feeding it for a couple weeks."

I am willing to do the work. I just thought I was supposed to just dump it in the secondary, wait a week or two and reuse it.

So my questions are:

1) I have a batch of Jamil's Flanders Red in primary right now. Should I transfer it to a secondary container and then dump the Roeselare in it, transfer it to a secondary and make a starter of 1.040 OG for the Roeselare and transfer it in a few weeks, or something else? How often do you step up the Roeselare in my situation?

2) I want to make a second batch with the Roeselare Blend. How long after infecting the first beer should I wait to use it on a second beer? A week? Two weeks? A month(s)?

-Cheers

Iordan
01/07/08 06:56 PM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
By the way, guys, I pitched the second pack of Roeselare. This one was only 6 months old, so I'm sure it will be OK. I do plan to re-pitch the yeast in a year or so and keep it going for a couple of generations.
Iordan
01/07/08 06:59 PM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
Dave, I would just transfer to the secondary, pitch the pack and let it perform the magic.
Al B
01/07/08 09:55 PM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
Dave,

The rose blend is basically a convenient flemish red blend in a pouch. 6 months old will take awhile to get going....but it should. Its basically a Sacch. yeast, B. lambicus most likely, lacto+pedio (a small snapshot of mixed bugs for sour brews). I think Steve is focussing on the brett character (not barnyard, but a rough edge) in this thread which growing up seems to give the blend alittle more personality.

You can do a multitude of things. The easiest would be to add one to the secondary and wait a good 1-2 months (you could take pH readings or taste for kicks), but best to just place it somewhere + forget it for a awhile. If you want a solid lambicus foundation, you should grow up the second pouch into a slurry. However, if you oxygenate the slurry, you may kill off the Pedio. Why dont'cha add Al's Bugfarm wood cubes? :D

Al B
01/07/08 09:59 PM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
After all, Rodenbach doesn't get buggy until it hits the big oak-tuns for aging.....

Al Roden-Buck

Dave I
01/07/08 11:03 PM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
<<Why dont'cha add Al's Bugfarm wood cubes? :D>>

Funny you should ask Al . . .

The batch of Jamil's Flanders Red is actually a split 10-gallon batch. 1/2 is getting the Roeselare blend (I ordered it a day or so before finding out about your Bugfarm Cubes) and the other half is getting your Bugfarm Cubes (the sole reason I am doing a 10-gallon batch. I am also planning another 10-gallon batch of an Oud Bruin (the recipe is in another thread I started) intending 1/2 for the second-generation Roeselare Blend, and the other half for the second half of my container of your infected Bugfarm Wood Cubes. So there is some method to my madness.

I might just throw one packet of Roeselare into the batch of soon-to-be-infected sour ale and make a slurry for the other pouch but not aerate it, maybe step it up a few times and throw it into something. My main concern with the already brewed, intended sour ale is that it will attenuate too much to let the Roeselare get sour enough, otherwise I would not rush.

But thanks for all of the advice.

-Cheers

Dave I
01/07/08 11:18 PM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
As an aside, I think it would be fun to compare a couple of recipes, split between two different souring agents. In this case, I should have four different beers.

Al, I might also try a second-generation of your cubes and a 3rd generation of the Roeselare in a split batch this summer or fall. For one, it gives me more sour Belgian-y brews, and for another, it lets me see how these cultures evolve, for better or worse. If I am going to age these things for up to two years, plus however long the bottles I stash away end up lasting, might as well make enough to enjoy the ride and have enough to really savor if they get really, REALLY good in, say, three to five years.

-Cheers

Ryan
01/08/08 05:41 PM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
Hey Dave

I'm curious how you're doing the multi-generations of Al's bugs. Are you pulling the cubes out of the carboy (if so, How?)? or are you taking a sample of the beer from secondary and using that to infect the next batch (and if so, how much?).

I would be very game to do a swap on this end. I also have my first 100% Brett beer that i just bottled (and corked with my new Christmas present, yeah!), a sour with Vinnie's wood chips, an infected Belgian Dubble with Grapes and Brett, and an infected pale ale with raspberries.

ryan

Dave I
01/09/08 11:08 AM  
Re: Roeselare Blend Health
<<I'm curious how you're doing the multi-generations of Al's bugs. Are you pulling the cubes out of the carboy (if so, How?)? or are you taking a sample of the beer from secondary and using that to infect the next batch (and if so, how much?).>>

What I am thinking, and this is very much open to critique, is splitting the initial tube between two batches, leaving them on the cubes for a few weeks or months (long enough for the beer to be infected and up & running, probably until summer), then racking the beer to kegs and transferring new batches onto the cubes. Drink sometime near the end of 2010, give or take.

And I would love to participate in a swap provided these things turn out good, or you guys want to see what happens when these beers do not turn out well.

I do have a question though. If I transfer a batch onto the bug cake from Al's bugs, can I use that by itself without any additional yeast? Secondly, should I use a turbid mash for something like that, or just a regular single infusion, and at what temp range?

-Cheers

 
Return to Forum

Post a Reply
Your Name:
Subject:
Message Body:


 
   
Username

Password

Around Bruges in 80 Beers: 2nd Edition

Around London in 80 Beers

Around Brussels in 80 Beers


Babblebelt contributors in attendance: