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Ryan
01/04/08 05:57 PM  
mass schedule for bugs
Sparrow writes that Flanders Red lacks Brett character because infusion mashes in the 140's make a highly fermentable wort with little in the way of dextrins for Brett to feed on years down the road.

I'm getting ready to use Al's wood chips with a host of Brett, lacto, etc... and I'm wondering what mash schedule will allow the greatest complexity to come through over time.

Can someone give me some hints here?

my grain bill is going to be:

5 lbs Pils

6 lbs Munich

0.5 lb caraPils

0.5 lb. Special B

1 lb flaked wheat

1 oz Saaz at 75 min.

primary on WY1056 and then secondary on the bug chips.

thanks in advance.

Ryan

Ryan
01/04/08 05:58 PM  
Re: MASH schedule for bugs
That should be MASH schedule
Cisco
01/04/08 06:12 PM  
Re: mass schedule for bugs
You could do a 3 step mash, 146F/30 min, 156F/30 min and 168F/10 min. With this you would get the best of the full range of conversion by activating beta and alpha enzymes. This will help give you a more fermentable beer and yet leave some dextrins for the critters.
Ryan
01/04/08 06:32 PM  
Re: mass schedule for bugs
Hey Cisco

You suggested this to me for my Saison after that tasting remember? Unfortunately I mash in a cooler so I can't heat directly and I don't think I can go through this many steps by infusing. Could I achieve this by decocting?

r

Cisco
01/05/08 01:15 PM  
Re: mass schedule for bugs
Not easily. You might be better off just mashing around 150F.
WitSok
01/05/08 03:33 PM  
Re: mass schedule for bugs
Ryan, what size batches do you typically make. I usually brew 5 gallons. I have a 12 gallon mash tun and regularly do step infusion mashes. While my mash tun is a kettle, the only time I use direct heat is for mash out. The key is to start relatively thick. I typically end with a water to grain ration of 1.9 qt/lb. Programs like Pro Mash or StrangeBrew can help you with the calculations. If you don't have these, the calculations are not that difficult and can be set-up in a spreadsheet. See "Maximize Your Mash" in the May/June 2005 Zymurgy for the relavent formulas.

Cheers, Dan

Ryan
01/05/08 04:24 PM  
Re: mass schedule for bugs
Hey Guys

Thanks for the help. I do 5 gallon batches. I have a converted keg but I use it for a boil kettle and mash in the cooler. I think the cooler is 12 gallons and I'm planning to mash 13 lb of grain so I may be able to do it.

I figure I'll strike with about 12-13 quarts (3.1 gallons) to mash in at 146 and then I should need a couple more gallons to infuse to 156 and then again to 168 (though for some reason I can NEVER get up to mashout). I think I'll give this a try tomorrow. Its supposed to get up above freezing for the first time in a long time.

cheers

r

Cisco
01/05/08 04:45 PM  
Re: mass schedule for bugs
Go for it and god luck!! It looks like you have more than enough room in your mash tun to do what you're suggesting. You may want to insulate the mash tun to help keep the temps stable, especially with such cold weather.
WitSok
01/05/08 09:35 PM  
Re: mass schedule for bugs
Ditto, go for it! Given, you are doing 5 gallon batches, you should be able to do step infusions. It may take a few batches to lock in heat mass and resistance of your system, but once you have thoses determined it should be elementry to calculate any step mash.

Dan

Baums
01/07/08 10:28 AM  
Re: mass schedule for bugs
I may have a different perspective on what mash schedule will maximize the contribution of wild bugs without being totally out of whack (I assume that's what you mean by complexity?). I agree that the main question is how much fermentable sugar you want, versus dextrins.

Maybe the most extreme example we can draw from, in terms of maximum dextrins (for wild bug contribution) but still making great beer, is lambic. I once did a mini-lambic mash with steps designed to approximate the mash schedule at Cantillon. I force-fermented the resulting wort with a pack of Nottingham. If I recall correctly, the apparent attenuation was about 65%. I don't know if this is what Cantillon wort would really ferment out to, but this is the best number I have to go on.

If you really want to make a wort that unfermentable, I think you need to skip any rests between 140 and 150, and do your saccharification at something like 158-160, if not higher. I have a 154F single infusion Flanders Red aging right now and it was nowhere near as unfermentable as that (nearly 80% apparent attenuation after primary with US-05) and based on tasting I really doubt the bug contribution is going to get excesive.

Ryan
01/07/08 11:56 AM  
Re: mass schedule for bugs
Hi Baums

thanks for that. 30 min too late I'm afraid. I mashed in at 147 and stepped up to 157. things went smoothly.

The only other thing I did was to boil a half pound of flaked wheat for about 20 min. before adding it to the mash.

We'll see in about a year I guess.

THanks to everyone for the help

ryan

 
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