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Author Replies
Dave I
01/25/08 10:22 AM  
Roeselare as Primary: Aerate or No?
I am planning my sour ale with Roeselare in a couple of weeks (letting a starter build up, go through multiple generations for a sourer blend). I am not aerating the starters so I do not damage the Pedio. However, when I use it in my Oud Bruin, I want to use it as the primary fermenting agent. Do I aerate it, or just dump it in without any oxygen addition? Or should I add a Sacch. strain and aerate, then a couple of days later after the Sacch has cleaned up the oxygen THEN add the Roeselare Blend?

As an aside, Roeselare will be offered as a seasonal blend again this April. If it sells well, maybe they will make it a year-round offering.

-Cheers

Sean White
01/25/08 11:06 AM  
Re: Roeselare as Primary: Aerate or No?
Does air damage pedio? I didn't know that. I don't see any reason not to aerate and I think it might be a bad idea not to. I am not an expert on pedio, but the yeast definitely needs the O2.
Ryan
01/25/08 11:12 AM  
Re: Roeselare as Primary: Aerate or No?
Is it ever a good idea to aerate after primary fermentation with sacch and prior to adding bugs?

Cisco
01/25/08 11:59 AM  
Re: Roeselare as Primary: Aerate or No?
I fermented my flanders red a little over two years ago with a primary using sacch (aerated)and then added the Roeselare after I transferred it to carboys. In two years it is perfect. If you added the Roeselare as a primary fermenter it would take forever to finish out.
Dave I
01/25/08 12:57 PM  
Re: Roeselare as Primary: Aerate or No?
<<Does air damage pedio? I didn't know that.>>

I may be wrong. I thought there was some bug in the Roeselare blend that did not do so hot with oxygen.

<<Is it ever a good idea to aerate after primary fermentation with sacch and prior to adding bugs?>>

I do not know. I was actually thinking of the opposite. Aerate and add the sacch at the same time (or within minutes of each other) and then add the bugs once the yeast absorbed the oxygen. Sorry if my writing was not clear on that.

-Cheers

tankdeer
01/25/08 01:25 PM  
Re: Roeselare as Primary: Aerate or No?
<<Does air damage pedio? I didn't know that.>>

Yes, O2 is definitely bad for Pedio.

I am really looking forward to April as I plan to pick up some of this blend as well. I've already got a couple beers planned, but I too haven't decided if I should use it as a primary ferment or not. I was leaning towards yes until recently. Now I'm kinda going the opposite. I was planning a Flanders Red, Oud Bruin, and Flanders Pale type thing (similar to Petrus Aged Pale). I suppose time will tell. :)

peteC
01/25/08 01:55 PM  
Re: Roeselare as Primary: Aerate or No?
I aerated my Flanders after pitching into primary with the Roselaire blend. The beer was secondaried in a plastic bucket for about 6 months and has nifty sour notes similar to LaFolie (ie. heavily oriented toewards acetic) and built a decent pellicle after 2 months.

This round of sours, I'm going to plastic but not as long - probably 4-8 weeks.

peteC

John C.
01/25/08 02:30 PM  
Re: Roeselare as Primary: Aerate or No?
>>tankdeeer spoke: I am really looking forward to April as I plan to pick up some of this blend as well.

Is the Roeselare Blend set for another Seasonal Wyest Release? Anyone know what else is to come this year?

Al B
01/25/08 03:15 PM  
Re: Roeselare as Primary: Aerate or No?
As tankdeer says: O2 is not good for Pedio - it is an obligate anaerobe, and excessive aeration/O2 MAY kill it over a period of time. Those who gobble up packages of Rosy blend can always use a nonaerated one in the secondary as a safety net.

Perhaps my Bugfarm cubes weren't enough........perhaps Rodenbug wood cubes would be the next offering if they don't go year-round for the blend.

Al RodenBuck

Dave I
01/25/08 03:23 PM  
Re: Roeselare as Primary: Aerate or No?
"Is the Roeselare Blend set for another Seasonal Wyest Release?"

forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?t=53904

Not sure about the rest of their VSS releases. I have heard they had plans to release CL-50, which is a great clean American yeast with a silky mouthfeel. Other than that I've got nothing.

-Cheers

Dave I
01/25/08 03:27 PM  
Re: Roeselare as Primary: Aerate or No?
<<Perhaps my Bugfarm cubes weren't enough........perhaps Rodenbug wood cubes would be the next offering if they don't go year-round for the blend. >>

The Bugfarm cubes were pretty cool. I am using the second half of the container in a couple of weeks; I broke down and made a small starter for the Bugfarm cubes, and a larger starter for the Roeselare blend packet I got from last year's stock. I would not say they were not enough, just that I (and presumably others) appreciate any sort of custom-made bug blends for sour ales.

-Cheers

Al B
01/25/08 03:58 PM  
Re: Roeselare as Primary: Aerate or No?
Check. I was being a bit of a wise-ass......well anyway, I'm thinking a slurry actually - we'll see. Michael Jackson had written that the Rodenbach culture had a least 5 Sacch. yeast strains and at least 20 total cultures (University of Leuven). I have some ideas.....

Dave I
01/25/08 04:14 PM  
Re: Roeselare as Primary: Aerate or No?
<<Check. I was being a bit of a wise-ass......>>

I figured it was meant tongue-in-cheek, as was my response.

<<Michael Jackson had written that the Rodenbach culture had a least 5 Sacch. yeast strains and at least 20 total cultures (University of Leuven). I have some ideas.....>>

Of course you do. ;) And if you need any guinea pigs for trying a blend of bugs or whatnot, either a slurry or on wood cubes, you know where to find us.

-Cheers

Al B
01/25/08 04:53 PM  
Re: Roeselare as Primary: Aerate or No?
"never let a monster to do the work of an eeeeevil scientist........now be a good bunny and let me have your brain."
Ryan
01/25/08 05:52 PM  
Re: Roeselare as Primary: Aerate or No?
Al Bunny

Nice

So I'm still not clear on this, and Dave I wasn't suggesting you were vague. I'm just curious.

Aside from the consequences for pedio, is it ever a good idea to add o2 to a beer after primary fermentation on Sacch. to give the bugs some aerobic activity?

Al B
01/25/08 06:10 PM  
Re: Roeselare as Primary: Aerate or No?
Ryan,

Once Fermentation has begun, adding O2 afterwards may oxidize the brew. At this point, Saccharomyces cerevisae will have done its part. Other Saccharomyces species however may have a role in some capacity (S. fermetati for example), but adding O2 after primary fermentation is not something I would do. All of the "aerobic " activity for Sacch yeast should be beforehand.

 
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