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Author Replies
BPotts
03/22/08 12:28 AM  
Berliner Swap
Steve, Sean, I noticed your talk of a berliner swap in the other thread - instead of continuing there I figured it'd be better to start a new thread....I have two berliners going right now, I would be down for a swap whenever they might be ready. It would be cool to see people's results for such an obscure beer style.

Maybe sometime after the red swap in a couple of months or something, I dunno, just a thought....

DrunkenPanther
03/22/08 12:54 AM  
Re: Berliner Swap
Ding!

I was hoping this would pop up!

That said, I wont be brewing my berliner for another week or 2.....hope Ill still be able to make it! If now, no hurt feelings!

I may play around with a few gallons of the berliner as well since many feel the sour never came through in theres

SteveG
03/22/08 02:11 AM  
Re: Berliner Swap
No prob!
Al B
03/22/08 10:35 AM  
Re: Berliner Swap
I don't, but I request (Steve) the dregs of any brew made with the latest WY Berliner blend (for that brett strain).

Al Bugs

tankdeer
03/24/08 11:41 AM  
Re: Berliner Swap
I'll be brewing up a berliner in a couple weeks as well. If it turns out well; I'd be down for a swap.
Mike T
03/24/08 12:04 PM  
Re: Berliner Swap
I've got one that has been in secondary for a couple months. I used the Wyeast blend (decoction mash, no boil), its just starting to get a nice twang now. Id definitely be up for a swap in another couple months when it is ready to go.
Seanywonton
03/25/08 08:51 AM  
Re: Berliner Swap
I'd love to, but can it wait a couple months? I don't want to hold you guys back but I just brewed mine, and according to Wyeast this blend can take 2-3 months to mature. Also, I'm planning on brewing a Kentucky sour this weekend with the same blend. If it's ready, I'd like to throw in a bottle for the swap too
BPotts
03/25/08 09:17 AM  
Re: Berliner Swap
Mike...glad to hear yours is finally building some acidity, I hope mine's doing the same.

Sean, there's no time set for this swap, it was just something I thought we could begin discussing....my little berliner wont be ready for another month or so either I'm thinking....

Seanywonton (Sean White)
03/25/08 11:01 AM  
Re: Berliner Swap
Well I'm in, by all means. Want to shoot for early June? Or whenever really, but I think my beer will be done by then.
tankdeer
03/25/08 12:53 PM  
Re: Berliner Swap
that seems like a good timeframe to me.
SAH
03/25/08 11:26 PM  
Re: Berliner Swap
I've got one brewed with WY Berliner blend, I'd be in for a swap in a couple months. Mine is already almost a couple months old, unbottled.
BPotts
04/13/08 01:35 PM  
Re: Berliner Swap
Well....I decided today to taste the berliner I brewed a few months ago and take a gravity reading. It was down to about 1.009, and tasted like a watered down lager with brett. Not very happy with the results so far. I'll let it warm up for the summer and HOPEFULLY this will build some sourness. Without it, this one will be something to sit on and hope for the best in a year or two.....

I also hope the next generation will produce a better beer, I'm gonna wait to taste that....

On the bright side it gaave me an excuse to take a reading of my bugfarm beer, and thus a small tasting...... ;0P*** I'll go into that on the proper thread....

SAH
04/13/08 07:18 PM  
Re: Berliner Swap
On the flipside of BPotts experience I just bottled mine and it was verrry delicious. It was nearing three months old at bottling, maybe just 2.5 months. Anyway, mine was not boiled, and it has been in primary since brewing. I went straight frm primary(glass) to the bottling bucket and bottled Friday. Warm and flat it was very sour, and tasted very good. I am very impressed so far, primary fermentation was 68-70F and since then ~74F.
BPotts
04/13/08 07:28 PM  
Re: Berliner Swap
Huh, interesting...maybe it WILL get better when it warms up....mines been aging in the low to mid 60's...
Baums
04/14/08 10:02 AM  
Re: Berliner Swap
SAH, if you didn't boil, do you think you got additional and different lactobacilli just from the malt?
tankdeer
04/14/08 12:13 PM  
Re: Berliner Swap
I've got 15 gallons of berliner in primary right now. 10 with a WLP001/Lacto blend, and 5 with the Wyeast 3191 blend. I will be tasting them in the next day or two and racking to secondary. The Wyeast blend took a really long time to get going. Over 48 hours, but then really took off. The airlocks on all 3 carboys smelled really good, and I'm looking forward to tasting.

One kinda nice thing was that right after primary was finishing up, a heat wave hit the west coast, and bumped them all into the mid 70's. They were all fermented in the 65-68 range, so that extra heat towards the end of primary should hopefully help attenuation and acidity. I'll let ya'll know how they taste in a day or two.

Seanywonton (Sean White)
04/14/08 03:00 PM  
Re: Berliner Swap
I've got mine conditioning at room temp and the one I racked to keg yesterday, after about 3 weeks, was just starting to not taste bland. That was with the 3191, so I should be able to be on time with you guys for the swap. I agree, 75 for this beer to condition seems to be a good way to sour it up a little faster.
SAH
04/14/08 06:49 PM  
Re: Berliner Swap
<<SAH, if you didn't boil, do you think you got additional and different lactobacilli just from the malt?>>

I guess thats the idea, and it certainly was one of the things I was hoping for by employing the no-boil method....but I've seen mixed opinions on whether or not anything lives through the mash/sparge. I think I kept everything below 170F, strike and sparge water I mean. Anybody know for sure? Al?

tankdeer
04/14/08 07:05 PM  
Re: Berliner Swap
Mine too was a no-boil. We'll see how quickly it comes around compared to everybody else's.
Baums
04/15/08 10:17 AM  
Re: Berliner Swap
If you kept your strike and sparge water below 170 then I think it's very likely you picked up lactobacilli from the mash. There are for instance strains of Bacillus that produce lactic acid and can survive 158F--I would think that at least a portion of your runnings did not hit that temp if your water was all below 170. (Anyway this seems like a critical point when people are comparing the sourness they get from the Berliner blend.)
tankdeer
04/15/08 11:41 AM  
Re: Berliner Swap
That's a good point Baums.

I took a sample and tasted my WLP001/Lacto blended berliner last night. 8 days in the carboy and it's down to 1.007 and already has a nice tartness to it. Kinda taste like lemonade. : )

I am going to keg 5 gallons of it tonight. It'll probably be another month or more before it gets tapped. So it will condition at room temp during that time. And the other 5 gallons of that blend will be going on some blueberry puree for a couple weeks.

I did not try the WY 3191 carboy, figuring it started later than the others, so it probably wasn't ready to rack. And also figuring that most people report slow sourness with it. But this morning it was starting to clear, so I may sample and rack that to secondary for a few months sooner than originally thought.

tankdeer
04/15/08 08:12 PM  
Re: Berliner Swap
Well, I took a sample of the WY 3191 carboy. It's still fermenting slowing, and it's only at 1.009-1.010 right now. But I am shocked to reveal that after only 9 days now, it's already quite tart. I was expecting this blend to take a while based on everybody's results but it already has a nice little lactic zing to it. Possibly from the no-boil method. Either way I am happy with how all these are progressing.
SAH
04/20/08 10:53 PM  
Re: Berliner Swap
This is a bit off topic, but the no-boil issue got me thinking:

Has anyone brewed a no-boil berliner weisse, not done a sour-mash, and then not pitched any lacto/etc. to sour it up? My understanding is that historically they did not do a sour mash or pitch lacto, and that not boiling is what produced the sourness...lacto surviving into the fermenter. Make sense?

tankdeer
04/21/08 12:12 PM  
Re: Berliner Swap
SAH; that makes sense to me. And yeah, I think that's what I heard before as far as the history of the style. I think the fact that I had considerable sourness from the WY3191 batch after only 9 days, whereas everybody else who used this blend required a couple months of aging to bring out, helps solidify the fact that some lacto is definitely making it through the mash.
BPotts
05/10/08 12:47 PM  
Re: Berliner Swap
I'm taking durastic action with my sub-par berliner... I just ordered 5 qrts of local fresh organic raspberries, to be added ASAP!
SAH
05/10/08 09:24 PM  
Re: Berliner Swap
I just had one of mine the other night, and I'm afraid I messed up on the priming amounts....on the low side. I'm fairly confident its not having problems with the sugar, like a high-grav beer, or it might be that there was not much yeast/bacteria in suspension(I did not add fresh yeast). Hopefully it just needs some time, otherwise its low carbed BW or I need to pop them all cold and add more sugar and re-cap. We'll see??? It's very good, so I want the carbonation to be right, but currently its on the low side.
BPotts
05/11/08 09:44 AM  
Re: Berliner Swap
How long have they been bottled SAH?

I tried my "imperial" berliner yesterday...very interesting, nothing like a berliner once again. Pretty high FG, but still around 8-8.5 ABV. For what it's worth, i was at least successful in making a malty bretty beer, which seems tough to actually get in practice. Tastes like a bretty old ale or something, not exactly sure how to desribe it. Definitly different. I also took a quick taste of my very young brett c&b + lacto berliner, brewed on wednesday. That actually tastes good, very much like a berliner ( as opposed to my first attempt with the WY blend), but acidity still has to build up.

SAH
05/11/08 09:52 AM  
Re: Berliner Swap
It has been in the bottle for a little more than 3 weeks I think.
Seanywonton (Sean White)
05/11/08 09:08 PM  
Re: Berliner Swap
So have you guys who used the Wyeast 3191 blend noticed a need to reyeast at bottling? If so, please let me know!

I have 1 batch kegged up already. I sampled a bit from the other batch, still in the secondary. It tastes really nice, but it's still not very sour at all! It is now at the 6 week mark.

Should I just leave it for a few more weeks and see if it gets sour on its own? I hate messing around with my beer, but the other option would be to brew up a gallon of extract beer and pitch only lacto for blending.

tankdeer
05/12/08 01:16 PM  
Re: Berliner Swap
I have one keg going now and it's quite nice. I'm going to bottle some of it up for competition and for the swap. My 3191 portion is still in secondary but will be kegged up in the next 3-4 weeks as I'm going to need the carboy. Last taste it was nice and tart but I was hoping that with some age the brett would come out a little.

Sean, my understanding from most people is that the 3191 normally takes 2-3 months to get sour. My batch was a no-boil so it was sour almost right away.

Mike T
05/12/08 03:09 PM  
Re: Berliner Swap
After 3 months in secondary my 3191 carbonated in about a week without any extra yeast. It just took first place in the combined Sour Ales and Belgian/French Ale category at the Spirit of Free Beer. According to one of the judges it made it to the top 10 in the best of show round before being eliminated for being too malty. It has a pronounced grainy taste, like chewing on pils malt, might be a result of decoction and no-boil. I was surprised 2 out of the 3 judges picked up on the brett component, I dont think it is very strong at all.
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