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John
03/25/08 09:31 PM  
Souring up an ipa?
I have a carboy of an ipa from a field trip to a local brewery that is sitting on chardonnay soaked oak. i was thinking about adding either a bit of wl sour mix in secondary or maybe some brett either in secondary or when i bottle. is either of these a reasonable idea? hoppy beers arent my first choice of brew so i dont mind playing with this at all. if adding brett, which strain?
Mike T
03/26/08 09:32 AM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
Russian River Deification a hoppy pale they finish with Brett B in the keg. It seems that Brett B is the standard choice for finishing hoppy beers, with Orval and Ommegeddon both using it as well.
Seanywonton (Sean White)
03/26/08 09:50 AM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
I'd second the Brett. Hoppy beers don't seem to go as well with outright sourness IMO.

On a side note, I just judged American IPA's at a homebrew comp, and one was pretty obviously infected with brett. It was a wonderful beer, although of course it didn't score too well as an IPA.

Baums
03/26/08 10:03 AM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
I think you may have to be careful whose "brett b" you use though...
Cisco
03/26/08 12:46 PM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
Whatever strain of brett you decide to use be real careful when priming the beer. Prime it for low carbonation because over time the brett will keep eating and producing CO2 and you could be making bottle grenades if you carbonate normally.
john
03/28/08 01:10 AM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
Ill bottle with Brett.

Baums- i assume there is a difference between wyeast or white labs? or are there others? what is the difference? whcih would you recommend and why?

Cisco_ how would you carbonate? i usually use corn sugar. will that work? if so how much and if not what and how much would you use?

Thanks!

Ryan
03/28/08 07:43 AM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
John

I'm not cisco, but, speaking from experience, I bottled 5 g. of a Brett ale with 3 oz of corn sugar and the beer ended up way over carbonated. I would think that half that amount would suffice over the long term. The Brett will keep chewing away over time and will produce more co2 than you'd get with a "clean" beer.

BPotts
03/28/08 08:44 AM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
Baums - why be careful whose Bruxellensis one uses? Why do you prefer one over the other?
Baums
03/28/08 02:28 PM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
Oh, I was just pointing out that one b. brux is not necessarily (and from what I understand, more likely NOT to be) the same as another. So when for instance the White Labs article says Orval is finished with a B Brux, I'm not sure that's any help in picking out a Wyeast strain, and possibly not even helpful for picking out a White Labs strain.

(If it were me I'd try to culture up Orval or Boulevard saison dregs.)

john
03/28/08 05:32 PM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
Thanks Ryan. so 1.5 oz it is. how much brett would you use? im intending to make a starter and use some of it so i have some on hand for later too. though i think i need to look into making a starter. it seems like its more involved somehow.

Baums. i will use this as an excuse to drink an orval. is that only Brett in there or other yeast too? and which strain is supposed to be in there?

How long would you guys suggest letting beer like this sit on oak cubes (ive got a wit doing the same too)?

Thanks for all the help!

tankdeer
03/28/08 05:37 PM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
Orval is Brett B in secondary. Bastogne yeast in primary.
Cisco
03/28/08 06:20 PM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
I usually carbonate sour beers to 2.5 atmospheres (using ProMash) which is usually a little over 4 ounces of corn sugar. Then every month open a bottle until I feel that the carbonation level should not progress any further and store the beer refrigerated from then on.
BPotts
03/28/08 08:30 PM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
K, Baums, was just curious 'cause they gave me a bottle of WL brux. at the homebrew store that I was gonna blend with clausenii for an all brett beer...making sure one was weird or bad tasting or something....
Baums
03/31/08 01:01 PM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
"Baums. i will use this as an excuse to drink an orval (...) which strain is supposed to be in there?"

Well, this is kind of what I was getting at--knowing "which strain" is not necessarily meaningful because there can be big differences between strains that have the same name. Of course, without any other information the name is all you've got to go on and as tankdeer says, somebody somewhere once tested it and found it fit best in the "brett brux" group. (Note that it's extremely unlikely that taste had anything to do with that determination...)

Anyway if you really want the Orval strain, and given that a number of people have had success with Orval dregs, that seems like a great way to go. (BTW there is not supposed to be anything but a single brett strain, and maybe sacc, in there.)

john
04/10/08 03:36 PM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
I was getting ready to bottle this with the starter made from orval dregs and took a gravity reading. its 1.012. im wondering if i should throw some of the brett in there and let it sit a while longer to get the gravity down? or will it be ok to bottle as is? im worried about the brett eating all the sugars the normal yeast didnt get to along with the added priming sugar and overcarbonating. should i be concerned or go ahead and bottle? if i should leave it in secondary and add brett, how long should i wait before checking gravity again?

tankdeer
04/10/08 03:52 PM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
personally, I would wait. I have a feeling the brett will probably chew through much more than you're expecting. You could try bottling without priming sugar, but even then I think you might have overcarbonated bottles after enough time.

Unless of course you bottle it all in champagne bottles and WANT an excessvily carbonated ipa. in that case you'd probably be ok.

From my experience in the past, normal volumes of CO2 (~2.5) seem to chew up about .002 gravity points. And the brett would likely chew up much more than that.

john
04/10/08 03:54 PM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
Thanks tankdeer. Id read about brett eating up more than sach so i am leary. Ill wait. would you add brett and let it sit in the carboy till the gravity is gone? ive read brett works fast, or sometimes does. how long would you wait before taking another sample?
john
04/28/08 10:52 PM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
sorry to keep bringing this up but im worried about bottle bombs. this has had brett in it for over a month. its down MAYBE .oo2 in gravity. am i being impatient? should i let it sit a while longer or is it safe to bottle? the taste is wonderfully different from the 5 gal of un brett beer. im getting ingredients together to try a mo betta betta clone and am very excited.
BPotts
04/29/08 01:42 AM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
Even if it did go down to .000 would .002 really be enough to cause that much extra carb to worry?
Mike T
04/29/08 09:22 AM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
Full carbonation on a regular beer involves adding .002-.003 of sugar, so yes that is enough to create a considerable amount of carbonation. It is amazing how much CO2 a seemingly tiny amount of carbonation can give off. I would expect this one to go down to 1.006-1.008, so maybe another 2 months or so. Some dry hops towards the end might be a good idea to re-up the hop aroma.

Good luck on the mo Betta Bretta.

john
05/01/08 08:52 PM  
Re: Souring up an ipa?
Thanks! ill keep waiting.
 
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