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Author Replies
BPotts
03/28/08 09:42 AM  
Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
I'm planning on brewing an all-brett wheat beer soon...maybe even this weekend.... and I'm curious to see what people's thoughts are on a blend of clausenii and bruxellensis. I bought two vials of clausenii to throw into a starter and they threw in a vial of bruxellensis at no extra cost that they had gotten as a promo. At first I was just gonna add to one of several brews already in secondary, but then I thought, what the hell why not add it to the all bretter, "mo' bretta the betta" i figured.

Is there any reason anyone thinks this a bad idea/bad combo?

Al B
03/28/08 12:29 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
I would anticipate an initial fruityness from clausenii (I always have gotten pine-apple from clausenii), then a gradual barnyard character as time goes by. If that sounds good, then why the hell not indeed!

Brian Richards
03/28/08 12:59 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
I thought about doing this exact same thing. I did this instead. I pitched a big slurry of B Claus and then at about 1.025 I pitched another big slurry of a starter I did from Als bugfarm.
SteveG
03/29/08 08:04 AM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
I think it sounds very viable.
BPotts
03/29/08 05:16 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
I made the starter last night.

Brian, the only other thing I wanted to add was lacto but they didn't have any at the store. I want this to be an all brett, short term beer, not a long mixed fermentation with multiple bacterias.

SteveG
04/05/08 10:53 AM  
All Claussenii IV - update
Did up a 1.080 wort Saturday/Sunday - racked atop the clausinii cake from the previous beer, a Berliner, at 1PM. Sucker was pushing foam out the tube in under 1 hour. I racked it today, 1.013, very robust, no sourness or funkiness what so ever.
BPotts
04/05/08 11:27 AM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
Amazing....I'm really curious to find out how Al got his to produce all that acid! My 300ml starter smells pretty clean, even with the brux. It's been bubbling away pretty steadily since last week - you think that's enough to pitch into a low gravity wort or should I step up the starter and then pitch into wort? I was thinking of maybe brewing this afternoon.

SteveG
04/05/08 12:21 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
How much of that 300ml is actual slurry? This past round I pitched about 150ml of actual brett into a 1037 wort (the Berliner turned out a tad high) and it worked great. Its worth mentioning though that the slurry was not only very big, it was also really rarin' to go. Al really juices it up with O2.
BPotts
04/05/08 01:09 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
Well....I pitched 3 WL vials of brett into the wort. I aeated what I thought was pretty heavily for a starter. After no signs of activity the next day, I took the airlock out and aerated some more, and voilą! - the next day bubbles began popping out pretty steadily, every few seconds. That's been going for several days now....things seem to be settling out a bit. I guess it's not a large amount, but I don't pplan on pitching into anything above a 1.040-1.050 wort.

Whaddya think?

BPotts
04/05/08 01:11 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
Also, bubbles are slowing now from the air lock, every 30 seconds to a minute or so... so fermentation is definitly slowing a bit.
SteveG
04/05/08 07:24 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
Jeez Ben, sounds to me like your starter is very ready to move into a bigger place. Best of luck!
BPotts
04/05/08 08:16 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
Thanks for the reassurance! This is certainly a new frontier for me, I'll post how everything turns out. Hopefully the rain will hold off tomorrow and I can get a chance to brew.
Al B
04/05/08 09:09 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
Just got off batch #2 of "Silence of the Lambicus" yesterday. Sort of a 100% lambicus Grand Cru but a bit lower in gravity. Wort aeration high. Fermentation is proceeding as I have forseen. MWA HaHAHAHAhahHAHAHAHA (haven't done that in a while).

Meanwhile, I have chilled the Brett Porter - its right where I want it........Probably keg it and fill a few bottles.

I'll do a clausenii-wit next and see what happens this time. I have begun the Berliner Brett isolation .....hopefully in a couple of weeks I'll have that ramped up (the slurry did smell a bit horsy surprisingly).

Al B drinkin' an Alvine Podge Belgian Imperial Stoudt

SteveG
04/06/08 11:17 AM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
Thought I'd mention, IMO a clausinii wit is a fantastic idea. I think the sour level you'll get will be more in line with a wit than a Berliner. Wish I'd thought of that!!
Al B
04/06/08 12:19 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
Well, don't fegit to save dat slurry!

Thanks.

BPotts
04/06/08 06:49 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
Well, the first all brett brew is done, and I'm getting ready to pitch the starter. I decanted half of it off of the sediment, and the results of a clausenii and bruxellensis starter arrrre...........

a very clean brew! I used briess 60/40 wheat DME, it's ruddy reddish, and much like a bier de garde - clean (no pineapple!), malty, a little fruity, very slightly tart....i'm enjoying a glass right now.

So, the brew is roughly 1.045 SG with 1 oz of simcoe for bittering, 4 oz of whole flower amarillo hops at 15 minutes before end, and 1 more oz of simcoe at knockout.

SteveG
04/07/08 07:11 AM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
Al, way more slurry than you need is in the bottle you passed off to me. LMK how it can be handed off...
Al B
04/07/08 10:47 AM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
Friday or Sat. this week works - if not hold on to it refrigerated until I git back from Europe.

Joelle
04/08/08 01:30 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
Hey guys. Our second Berliner Weisse experiment with 100% Brett claussenni appears to be finished fermenting. OG for both was in the mid 1.030s and fermentation temps were around 72F. This time we pitched 5 G of wort onto the yeast cake from the first batch. It went down to 1.000 just like the original batch, but without the month long lag time we had with the initial pitching. This one took off within a few hours with about a 30 second shot of pure O2. This beer is much better in color (light straw color vs. light pinkish brown tinge, probably from oxidation). They taste similar, but the second one doesn't have as much of the cidery/corky flavor as the original. It has some faint fruity notes and a slight tartness, however it isn't tart enough to call a Berliner Weisse. We're going to add some lactic acid to the second batch just like we did with the first to bring it up to the proper sourness level. Conclusion: the beers are pretty good, but not what we were looking for in a Berliner Weisse.

I see there's some talk of using Pedio to produce more lactic acid than people have been getting from their attempts with using lactobacillus. My thought is to make about 5 G of a light wheat beer that I will get REALLY sour with pedio and keep it around to blend into fresh clean light wheat beers. I understand that pedio throws off diacetyl and can't take it back up on it's own. Should I pitch the Pedio with a clean Saccharomyces strain at the same time to produce the sour beer I'll use to blend? Also, how do you think I should store it once it has reached the level of sourness I'm looking for so that it doesn't oxidize. Maybe in a keg blanketed with CO2?

Joelle

BPotts
04/08/08 09:17 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
You could pitch in some Fantome dregs....at warm temps (80's) the lacto is a monster. Got a nice sour saison in 3 months (added in primary with WY farmhouse ale), rivals the tartness of any of my beers with pedio (and some are tart!).

I think pedio would take longer to produce the acid you want....but if you're just gonna keep to blend anyway and maybe add extra wort every once and awhile it's not a bad idea. I would just leave it in glass, but I don't keg so I have no experience with that.

BPotts
04/09/08 12:20 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
Geez guys, you weren't kidding about how much clausenii rips when it get going! 12-14 hours there was positive pressure on the airlock but no bubbles yet...8 hours later there was a small krausen and small bubbles steadily pouring out....2 days later I have just checked on it again to find gunk blowing out of the tube....5 gallons in a 6.5 gal carboy and the krausen completely filled out the head space, and then some....luckily it looks like not much was lost, and things are winding down now...still smells clean, no signs of funk, even from the brux.

I don't really plan on racking to secondary, just letting it settle out in primary over the next couple of weeks....are there any issues with letting brett sit on itself like sacch? It eats autolyzed sacch so it doesn't autolyze itself does it?

Al B
04/09/08 02:23 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
<<are there any issues with letting brett sit on itself like sacch? It eats autolyzed sacch so it doesn't autolyze itself does it?>>

Ben,

I would treat Brett as Sacch. yeast. A couple of weeks at room temp or colder will not be a problem.

BPotts
04/13/08 09:40 AM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
Alright, now that primary fermentation has virtually finished, I'm preparing to brew two beers to reuse the yeast cake with. The first, which I may brew today and auto-siphon off some yeast cake, will be an-all brett saison, using a dash Pacific Gem for bittering, then belgian saaz and styrian goldings for flavor and aroma.

The second will be a belgian golden strong with a lb. of clear candi syrup, and to-be-decided hop profile, probably something similar to the saison just stepped up.

BPotts
04/13/08 09:42 AM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
Oh yeah, I'll be adding WY lacto to the saison as well.
BPotts
04/23/08 09:00 AM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
Ok, well, the "BGS" is in the books. Bittered with sorachi ace and flavored with belgian saaz. I under shot the amount of brewing water, so, with 9 lbs. of pils DME and a lb. of clear candi syrup I got about 4-4.5 gallons - starting gravity around 1.100. This stuff really ferments like crazy....after 3 days the krausen completely filled out the head space in the 6.5 gal carboy and is now already dropping....that's like an 8-10 inch krausen! Anyway, this actually smells kind of acidic, as opposed to the other two. Kind of acetic. Have others gotten acetic acid out their all brett c beers? Although this also contains brett brux., so perhaps that's contributing some acidity now.....

3 all bretters in 3 weeks...a good start to all brett brewing!

BPotts
04/26/08 02:21 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
Today I bottled my first of the brett c & b brews - tastes like a clean hoppy wheat beer, FG of about 1.019. No acid or pineapple from the brett c and no horsey funk from the brett b. The saison, which I suspect will taste much more like a blond with lacto than a saison, has nice scummy white pellicle from the lacto. I'll use dregs from that for my own berliner blend beer. The BGS which i'm assuming will be more like a golden barleywine is finishing up in the primary and is just about ready for secondary.
BPotts
04/30/08 01:55 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
A peculiar occurence has happened in this BGS....At the beginning of the week, the krausen had completely dropped, and bubbling out of the airlock had slowed significantly. Now, a new krausen has formed on the beer, and steady bubbling has resumed, the and the aroma has changed from fruity to more...well....different, not sure how to describe it. I'm assuming perhaps the brett c did the bulk of the work and now the brux has grown up and is fermenting the rest? Very curious....
peteC
04/30/08 02:09 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
I would watch those 1.019 FG bottles with the brett especially since you bottled so quickly..... they could go bomber.

I am not surprised that the character is so mellow. i think I deduce the time from pitch to bottling was about 4 weeks. I've noticed that brett character really starts to establish in more time than that. i try to go several months before moving from fermentor to keg. Plus it gives you some time to make sure the gravity is stable and not slowly dropping.

petec

BPotts
04/30/08 02:20 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
Pete, are those beers all brett? I pretty much read that 100% brett C beers (and all brett breers in general) stabilize rather quickly - weeks as opposed to months.... have you found otherwise? Anyway, If they seem to start over carbing I'll simply drink them... I don't necessarily plan on storing those long term.
petec
04/30/08 02:55 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
1.019 for a normal gravity beer is pretty high for a 1.045 starting gravity wort. there is probably some residual sugars still available for things to eat even if they are not overattenuating to ultra dry levels. especially given fairly minimal starter size.

I have concerns if any of my beers other than big beers ends that high.

My 1.055 all brett 90%pils10%wheat ended at somehting like 1.010-12.

I find that flavor development continues beyond gravity drop as well.

with my 100% brett beers, I've only pitched large slurrys that took on the order of 3-4 weeks to build to high cell counts.

cheers and let us know how its doing after another few weeks to carbonate and continue to develop. petec

BPotts
04/30/08 03:22 PM  
Re: Claussenii + bruxellensis all brett brew
This was an all DME beer, so that could largley be the reason.... I do agree it is a tad high even for a sacch fermented beer, so i'll let you know how it turns out
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