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Caped Brewsader
04/18/08 04:56 AM  
Baby's First Sour
I will be doing my first sour soon. Since I am no expert on the wild side I was wondering if you guys could give me some feedback on this recipe.

Very loosely inspired by Thiriez Vieille Brune, and Oerbier Special Reserva 2006

Baby's First Sour

OG 1.060

45% Pale

45% Munich

4% Special B

3% de-husked chocolate

3% de-husked black

single temp infusion mash 68C 60min

60min boil

EKG at 60 for 15-18 IBU

Ferment with T-58 at 18C and dregs of Oerbier Special Reserva 2006 (the 2006 saw the return of the Brett's!). If I can get another bottle of the Thiriez Vieille Brune, I'll add dregs of that too. Unfortunately only 250 bottles were made. I had number 250 of 250. I am going down there in a couple weeks and will see if they have any left. http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/thiriez-vieille-brune/84726/51300/

oak added to secondary (possible split secondary)

Questions:

1. does the recipe look ok?

2. Should I step up the dregs in a starter, or could I just pitch the dregs? I assume I should step them up to about a liter starter.

3. Oerbier SPecial Reserva 2006 dregs will hopefully develop a nice pellicle, do I leave it in primary and wait for it to fall then rack? Or would the T-58 most likely finish before any brett takes hold, then I rack it off the t-58 and let the pellicle form in secondary and wait for it to fall then rack again? Or just rack to secondary before adding the critters and then let the pellicle form, fall, then rack and age? I lean towards the latter.

BPotts
04/18/08 07:48 AM  
Re: Baby's First Sour
If I were you I would just dump the dregs in primary with the regular yeast, let it go for a month or two, and then rack to secondary. I've had fine luck with that process.

I'm sure someone else will have a different opinion. There are many ways to attempt a beer like that.

BPotts
04/18/08 07:49 AM  
Re: Baby's First Sour
I wouldn't worry about the pellicle....even when mine get broken they always seem to form again anyway.
Mike T
04/18/08 08:12 AM  
Re: Baby's First Sour
I would back down on the dark malts and up the crystal. Maybe swap out the dehusked black for caramunich. Other than that it looks tasty.
Caped Brewsader
04/18/08 09:05 AM  
Re: Baby's First Sour
I just did a quick calculation on Tastybrew.com's recipe calculator and came up with this. I normally work in metric (or percentages) but I think most of you work in lbs. I upped the Special B slightly and knocked down the roast a bit.

45% or 5.5lbs Pale

45% or 5.5lbs Munich

6% or .75lbs Special B

2% or .25lbs De-husked Chocolate

2% or .25lbs De-husked Black

I was planning on adding the roasted grains to the mash 10 min before the initial runoff to try and keep down possible astringency. But I definitely want there to be a roast character. That is what made the Thiriez Vieille Brune such a hit with me. A nice smooth and mild roast running around with the oak and sour characters.

So BPotts, you think I don't need to step up the dregs at all in a starter? Just pitch it from the bottle with my T-58?

BPotts
04/18/08 09:19 AM  
Re: Baby's First Sour
I mean, a starter can't hurt, but....

The dregs are already accustomed to the environment, and you're planning on aging this for a long time anyway - plus, they have more time to grow and more food if you add to primary as opposed to secondary. I've done that once with great success, and am trying it again in my most recently brewed flanders red. The first was fantome dregs (there was a huge yeast bed in that bottle though). For the red, which I brewed about a three weeks ago now, I added dregs from two petrus aged pale bottles...I'm also experimenting with aging in plastic after tasting a red aged a year in plastic during our last swap...the only one with that classic acetic character, but, that's another thread all together.

SAH
04/18/08 10:18 AM  
Re: Baby's First Sour
<<after tasting a red aged a year in plastic during our last swap...the only one with that classic acetic character, but, that's another thread all together.>>

Please start that thread, would love to hear about the 'success' from a bucket.

MarkO
04/18/08 10:24 AM  
Re: Baby's First Sour
I'd second the request for an expanded discussion of acinetobacters and their role(s) in these beers -- that is something I have been trying to wrap my head around for a couple of years now.
Caped Brewsader
04/24/08 07:56 AM  
Re: Baby's First Sour
Any more comments on the recipe and or process anyone?

OG 1.060-1.065

45% (roughly 5.5lbs) Belgian Pale

45% (roughly 5.5lbs) Munich

6% (roughly .75lbs) Special B

2% (roughly .2lbs) De-husked Belgian Chocolate

2% (roughly .2lbs) De-husked Belgian Black malt

single temp infusion mash 68C 60min

60min boil

hops: EKG at 60 for 15-18 IBU

T-58 and dregs of Oerbier special reserva 2006 added to primary.

If I get a pellicle in primary do I just ride it out or will I still want to rack it off the yeast cake? I'm aiming for a two week primary and then 6+ month secondary.

BPotts
04/24/08 08:47 AM  
Re: Baby's First Sour
When to secondary is another thing people have differing opinions on. I'd say leave it in primary for a couple of months or so and then rack, other might say to just leave it. I don't think it matters much as long as you don't rack to secondary too early.

Otherwise your recipe looks good to me!

Caped Brewsader
04/24/08 09:28 AM  
Re: Baby's First Sour
BPotts, yeah, I was just reading some other stuff on this. It sounds like I'll just leave it in primary for a couple months.
 
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