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I just really like the work levifunk is doing!

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RYAN
06/04/08 12:28 PM  
FYI--stale beer
http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080602/full/news.2008.869.html
SteveG
06/06/08 01:16 PM  
I was wondering if this link would end up here!
>>As beers lose their freshness they first take on bready flavours, which later shift to flavours known as cardboard, sweet, caramel, wine and sherry.<<

Obviously by "lose their freshness" here they mean oxidize. Has anyone experienced a "bready" phase in oxidation? I'm not so sure about that.

Baums
06/06/08 04:05 PM  
Re: FYI--stale beer
Actually my reading of the article was that they were trying to make the point that "losing freshness" is broader than just oxidation--that Maillard reactions are also responsible for changes in the beer's character over time.

Anyway I'm not sure I've ever tasted the "bready" phase but then who knows, maybe some beers I thought were bready didn't taste like that when they were fresh.

SteveG
06/06/08 05:07 PM  
Re: FYI--stale beer
Yes, that's true, they did say "loosing freshness" not oxidation. But then they described the resulting off-flavors as "cardboard, sweet, caramel, wine and sherry". What aspect of lost freshness would cause these? I'm pretty sure, weather they said it or not, they were talking about oxidation - especially cardboard and sherry. Those are as classic as oxidized off-flavors get.

...but preceeded by breadiness? I find yeast can have a very bready character, I associate breadiness with bottle conditioning, certainly not spoilage.

Baums
06/09/08 11:44 AM  
Re: FYI--stale beer
I got the impression they were saying "loss of freshness" specifically to avoid saying that these flavors were 100% due to oxidation. I think their point was that while it's well known that oxidation can significantly change the flavor of beer in the bottle, so can maillard reactions--and that might be a challenge to what many of us already believe.

Like many folks, I've tasted the flavors you mention in old beer, and I "know" those are classic oxidation off-flavors. But, the article seems to suggest that some of what we taste in old beer is actually due to Maillard reactions instead of (or in addition to, or in combination with) oxidation reactions.

I'm not sure it matters in homebrewing. I'll still try to minimize oxygen on the beer. And if the big boys don't yet have a way to minimize the Maillard changes, I certainly don't, other than keeping it cool. (Besides, maybe some Maillard changes are actually good?)

SteveG
06/09/08 12:34 PM  
Re: FYI--stale beer
>>(Besides, maybe some Maillard changes are actually good?)<<

As are, IMO, some aspects of oxidation! Not all of course. But still, the part of this that I didn't connect with was loss of freshness and a bready character.

 
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