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06/15/08 08:59 PM  
Westy Clone
I have been very fortunate enough to try the 8 and 12 more than a couple times. Incredible brew for such a simplistic formulation of base ingredients. After researching this beer for a few years now and candi syrup being available now, I'd like to recreate this.

I've searched the previous threads about this brew and have found several variations. N8's seems to be the leader and standard by which most base this recipe on. I've also read BLAM and some of the more recent incarnations of clone recipe's.

My question is:

What recipe's have you found the best success with in the creation of a clone. Either 8 or 12?

N8, if you don't mind, what is you most recent incarnation of your well-known Westy clone recipe? I've seen that's it's undergone some changes along the years.

Thanks in advance for any help you all could provide!

06/16/08 06:39 AM  
Re: Westy Clone
I've brewed the super simple 50:50 Pils Pale blend with candi syrup from Brian Mercer (D2).

SG 1.10

FG 1.02

Its four months in the bottle now and still pretty overwhelming but it seems that in a year or so it will be a pretty nice approximation...

hope that helps

06/16/08 11:25 AM  
Re: Westy Clone
May I ask what your hop schedule was?

Also, 7 lbs of each grain with one bottle of D2?

Many thanks for posting up what you did!

Wish I could taste other people's Westy clones to find out what different variations are like. I'm sure a slight variation on the grain bill, or extra candi syrup make quite a difference?

06/16/08 11:55 AM  
Re: Westy Clone
actually looking back at my notes, I used 100% pils (its what I had on hand)

17 lbs. Pils

1 lb. cane sugar

1 lb. D2 syrup

0.7 oz. N. Brewer at 90 min

1 oz. saaz at 30 min

28 IBU

I collected 4 gallons after the boil (I only ran off 5 or so).

06/26/08 08:28 PM  
Re: Westy Clone
Has anyone tried using two bottles of the candi syrup in a 5 gallon batch?

Or, has anyone tried mixing different types of the syrup? Ex, Amber and D2 or Dark and D2?

I read on another site, from a thread over a year ago, that N8 was thinking it might be better to use two 16oz bottles in his Westy clone.

06/27/08 11:29 AM  
Re: Westy Clone
I recently did another westy type beer. It is still base on the original grist of 50% pils, 50% pale malt.

I used 1 bottle of the D2 in a 10 gal batch, as well as 1 lb of the amber soft sugar. Don't recall the the hop schedule off the top of my head now. I'm in the middle of moving right now and don't have access to my notes.

But it was pretty much the same as previous attempts.

If you're going to use the regular dark candy syrup I would use 2 bottles. THe D2, however, is my new fav for this style. More in the lines of a dubble. I used the Westmalle yeast cultured from the bottles and fermented in the upper 70s.

06/27/08 11:48 AM  
Re: Westy Clone
So, two bottles of D2 would be over the top, in your opinion for a 5 gallon batch? 2 bottles of the regular dark "probably" would be ok? Wow, the D2 is that much more intense? Good info.

As for your recipe, here's what I gathered from around the net:

N8 Recipe for a Westy 8 Clone:

7.5lbs Dingemans Pils

7.5lbs Dingemans pale

16oz. D2 candi syrup

0.7oz Northern Brewer 7.0%AA @ 60min

0.9oz Hall. Hersbrucker 4.8%AA @ 45min

1.0oz Fuggle 4.5%AA @ 30min

WY3878 (trappist high gravity)

Matched the Westvleteren water profile

Sacch rest @ 148F for 90min. (no mash at 158, or so?)

OG 1.080

FG 1.012

"Give it a good 90 min boil after the above sacch rest at 148. I started the ferment at ~68F, then let it rise to about 78F. I believe Westy let's it get up to the mid 80's.

Then after a couple of weeks rack off of the yeast and cold condition it at 30F for a few weeks."

I noticed the hop schedule leaves a bitterness of about 60 (or so) IBU's. Was the above correct, or do I have that too high?

Thanks alot for the info!

06/27/08 11:55 AM  
Re: Westy Clone
I recently made a dark strong with two bottles of the D2 syrup in it. It is not carbonated yet, but at bottling time it tasted fantastic. Easily the best dark strong I've made to date. Really looking forward to this one.
06/27/08 12:40 PM  
Re: Westy Clone
I used 1 bottle of the D2 in a 10 gal batch. It has amazing flavor in a small package. I would still want to try 2 bottles and see where that puts it. I don't think 2 in a 5 gal batch would be over the top, I just happen to only have 1. I would have used 2 if i had them.

The brew I did recently was a higher gravity. It clocked in at around 1.085, IIRC.

As to the recipe posted above, you could add a rest at 158, if you like.

I can't recall what the IBUs were in my newest batch. I'll have to check, but I'l have to find my brew notes first. Might be a day or two.

06/27/08 02:48 PM  
Re: Westy Clone
FWIW, I didn't find two bottles of the D2 (Yes, 5 gallon batch) to be over the top at all. Yes, the flavor is fairly intense, but it really adds a lot to the beer. And the grain bill was fairly simple otherwise.

The beer was not designed to be a clone of anything. Just wanted to brew a good dark strong and it was an excuse to try the D2. I don't remember all the specs off hand, but I know the gravities were: OG: 1.080, FG: 1.011. Pitched at around 66 and let it free rise. Hit around 76-78 at most. Yeast was 3rd or 4th gen WLP550.

06/27/08 04:33 PM  
Re: Westy Clone
Thanks N8 for the follow-up. Good luck on the move and I'll look forward to your notes after things have settled down for you.

Thanks tankdeer for the advice as well.

Did you find that body and/or mouthfeel improved as a result of the added D2?

That's one of the main characteristics I'm trying to figure out how to clone. How were layers of complexity, considerable body and mouthfeel created with only 2 simple base malts and candi syrup? If candi syrup is that integral, would a greater amount yield greater results? If it does, where is the line of diminishing returns then?

I'm sure the sugar swap would yield valuable data, but I didn't see any results yet to understand variations between sugars, their concentrations and impacts on the base beers.

Thanks for letting me shoot ideas out here. Can't find anywhere else on the net or in books that this info lies.

06/27/08 05:02 PM  
Re: Westy Clone
<<Thanks tankdeer for the advice as well.

Did you find that body and/or mouthfeel improved as a result of the added D2?>>

Well, to be fair all I've had so far was the hydro sample. So I'm not going to really comment much on the mouthfeel of a flat sample of beer. As for the body, I really prefer my Belgians on the dry side. However, even at 1.011 it had a fair amount of body which I assume was from the D2. But I know that will lighten up as it carbonates (especially since I also carb my Belgians on the high side).

Since my recipe was not a Westy clone, the grain bill was more than just base malt and D2 syrup. But not much more. I think I had a touch of munich and maybe a dash of caramunich. I'll check the recipe once I get home.

08/14/08 07:44 AM  
Re: Westy Clone
Well....I brewed one of these lasat night

17 lb Calstle Pils

1 lb cane sug

2.25 lb D2

1 oz Hall @90

1 oz Sty Gold @ 60 & 30

WLP500 1000ml starter

O.G. 1.113( probably a little high for the style) - fermenting violently after 7 hrs.....will let you all know how it turns out.


08/14/08 10:08 AM  
Re: Westy Clone
"Well....I brewed one of these lasat night

17 lb Calstle Pils

1 lb cane sug

2.25 lb D2

1 oz Hall @90

1 oz Sty Gold @ 60 & 30

WLP500 1000ml starter

O.G. 1.113( probably a little high for the style) - fermenting violently after 7 hrs.....will let you all know how it turns out."

That's really close to what I came up with to brew for a W12. I'm going to use 3787 though. How have folks been doing using the simple grain bill as opposed to some of the recipes with lots of specialties for this beer? I imagine since the D2 has become available, this would be the preferred strategy. What was your mash schedule and fermentation temperatures? Thanks!


08/14/08 05:20 PM  
Re: Westy Clone
Mashed 90 min at 150

Collected 5.5 gal

90 Min Boil

Pitched at 68, fermenting now at 70ish, will try to get it to 76-78 over a few days.

I am SOOOO Happy I deciced to use a blowoff hose for this :)

08/20/08 08:53 PM  
Re: Westy Clone
I sampled it from the primary today...HOLY BANANA-BREAD BATMAN!!!....moving it to secondard and 4-6 weeks of cold condition this weekend....more updates to come when it is finished.

I think it has potnetial, but way too early to really determine final taste.

08/24/08 01:57 PM  
Re: Westy Clone
I just moved it to secondary....tastes great...it is going to rest for another 4 weeks.

I think I may have errored somewhere....it is 1.012 today....lower that I expected for a final 4 weeks from now...any thoughts? I tastes good now. and I still plan to drink it, but it is not quite to style.



08/25/08 11:31 AM  
Re: Westy Clone
You had quite a bit of sugar in there. Also, what was your mash temp? I would say that 1.012 is low for a Westy clone, but hardly out of style for a Dark Strong in general. FWIW, I actually like mine on the drier end and my last one finished at 1.011. Down from 1.091. Not as big as yours but a hefty beer nonetheless. I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. Should be a good beer still.
08/26/08 12:12 AM  
Re: Westy Clone
How did you build up your yeast?
08/27/08 07:40 AM  
Re: Westy Clone
Mashtemp was 150 for 90 min.

Yeast was grown from 1 pack in 200ml @ 1.040ish, 600 @ 1.050ish, 1000ml @ 1.055ish

Took about a week...was the first time I tried such a hi-grav starter...usually keep them right below 1.040

08/27/08 11:47 AM  
Re: Westy Clone
<<...was the first time I tried such a hi-grav starter...usually keep them right below 1.040>>

That is actually the preffered method for building up yeast. Higher graviter starters does little more than stress the yeast. Give, 1.055 isn't that high, but most people recommend that all starter worts be in the 1.030-1.040 range.

Either way, it sound like you're going to have a nice beer on your hands after some age, albeit not exactly a westy clone.

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