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Happy Feet
08/12/08 12:03 PM  
Saison d'Epeautre style saison
I am interested in brewing a Saison d'Epeautre style of beer. FHA says that it has 33% raw spelt. What would be the best way to deal with that much raw grain? Should I do a pre-mash to gelatinize the grain then add it with the malt or just add to the main mash with all the grain? Any idea on IBU rate in this beer? Also what yeast strain would you suggest?

Thanks!

Cisco
08/12/08 04:44 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
I would definitely do either a pre-mash or do a multi step mash, otherwise you'll end up with a big batch of glue.

I would use any saison yeast strain and make sure to ferment it very warm - high 80s at the least.

No idea on the IBU's but I try to keep them around half of what my starting gravity would be and add some dry hopping later on.

Doug
08/12/08 04:52 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
According to this site, http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm Wyeast 3726 is the yeast from Brasserie Blaugies.

Farmhouse brews suggests doing a step up mash to a full boil of the spelt or at least a full boil of the spelt(basically treating it as an adjunct).

I can't remember the IBUs offhand. I'll report back when I can review the book.

Happy Feet
08/12/08 06:03 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
Yes, I agree to a step up mash to a full boil on the spelt. I will then add it back to the main mash and aim for a temp. of 145 to 150 F.

I am trying to culture some yeast from a few bottles of Dupont. So far no signs of activity (one day in) How long before I should see some activity?

MarkO
08/12/08 06:38 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
If you can culture the dregs from a Blaugies bottle, definitely pick that over the Wyeast 3726. I did a side-by-side comparison of the two with a split batch of spelt saison last year, and the portion fermented from the bottle yeast had way more character and flavor.
Doug
08/12/08 09:21 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
Okay, Farmhouse Ales does not have the IBUs, but does say, "subtle hop character." I suppose the lower end of the BJCP guidelines would be appropriate--say 20 IBUs.

Here is some extra info the book had:

OG 1.048

FG 1.002

6% abv

95% apparent attenuation

Styrian Goldings hops

77-80F fermentation

5 day "garding" at 41F

FWIW I just remembered it was Radical Brewing that suggested using the adjunct mash procedure on unmalted grains.

Happy Feet
08/13/08 01:21 AM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
I can not get rice hulls so will have to just mix with the malt mash after the adjunct mash. I am a little worried about gumming up the whole mash, and having a stuck sparge. Any suggestions?
Bill Bunning
08/13/08 08:28 AM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
I did a Saison similar to this last summer that I used Spelt flakes instead of raw spelt. I used about 30% spelt and remainder pils malt. Mashed in the mid 140s. I used the Farmhouse Ale yeast and fermented warm (80-85). The beer turned out wonderful and there was no need to gelatinize the spelt.
Happy Feet
08/13/08 12:01 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
One more thought: Who would sell rice hulls other then a home brew shop?
Doug
08/13/08 04:12 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
A quick google search shows that gardening stores and pyrotechnic stores might carry rice hulls.
tankdeer
08/13/08 07:09 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
The internets also carry Rice hulls.
Happy Feet
08/20/08 01:24 AM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
So I will be going ahead without the rice hulls. Any ideas from the group as to how to make this as successful as possible? If my total grain bill is 24 lbs how much of the spelt should I add (trying to get about 30%) without a serious stuck gummy mess?
korndog
08/20/08 01:26 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
I'm not sure if it applies here, but my friends who gelatinize rice add some base malt to the rice gruel to loosen it up.

I have found that mash tun geometry can affect gummy mashes as well. While doing decoction mashes, tall cylindrical mash tun was more likely to stick than large rectangular cooler. That's my experience anyway. I have not used spelt.

Al B
08/20/08 02:51 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
Here's what I have done with no trouble sparging -

Perform a step mash for the spelt with alittle pilsner or pale - protein rest, then sach step. Afterwards, heat to boil to bust up the gums. Add to the main mash for completion, then sparge slowly. If ya want more specifics I'll have check my notes later on .

Al

Al B
08/20/08 02:55 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
Oh wait. You said that already........nevermind! ;)
Mike T
08/20/08 05:49 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
Just did the same sort of mash last week for a lambic with ~35% raw wheat berries, got a cool 94% efficiency… sparging with 200 degree water helps as well.
Happy Feet
08/21/08 12:08 AM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
I was lucky to get some barley husks from a micro brew today. Will use them! He said rice hulls are not widely available in our country, barley hulls are... If I am to use 7 lbs spelt for a total 24 lbs grist (30%) How many pounds of husks should I put in? Also Mike T, is 200 degree sparge way to high, lots of tannin and astringent flavour??

Al B
08/22/08 05:35 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
Feet -

The boil will help as noted earlier. I've seen up to 1 lb hulls/30% adjunct 5 Gal batch. That should be good enough. Although I never used more 1/2 lb.

The 200 F sparge is used only for lambics, where the astringency will be lost after prolonged aging. So sparge normal. Good luck.

Happy Feet
08/24/08 04:56 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
Well, the brew day went well. I had no trouble with the sparge, and the adjunct mash went great. I added 1 pound of pale malt to the mini mash and went through 3 temp stages. at 150, I was surprised as to how sweet it was, I added back to the main mash which was at 120 and stabilized at 152. I added goldings hops to 34 IBU at first addition, let boil for two hours and added 1 tsp. of grains of paradise at 5 minute remaining. I then added another 1.5 oz goldings at knock out. Final gravity was 62, a little higher then expected. I pitched with the seasonal wyeast vss farmhouse ale.

Thanks for the help!

Happy Feet
08/25/08 08:25 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
The fermentation is running around 90+ degrees, foam on top is gone but just boiling at the moment! Never seen a fermentation so aggressive. Is this all right?
BPotts
08/25/08 08:39 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
"just boiling"? The recommended temp range is a little lower for that strain, I think, but I've never noticed any ill effect myself from elevated temps...
Happy Feet
08/25/08 11:34 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
I do an open fermentation 11 gal or around 43 L It is at 90 degrees liquid temp. I looks from the top, like a low simmer! Smells great. Garage is around 78. Lots of heat coming off this beer. Have not seen anything like it. Very interesting.
Happy Feet
08/29/08 07:23 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
Racked the beer, finished at 1.007. 1.062 to 1.007 What is the alc. on that?
BPotts
08/30/08 11:07 AM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
i think that's around 6.5 or so
Happy Feet
09/20/08 03:42 PM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
Bottled the beer two weeks ago. Have kept it in a warm garage (around 70). Opened up a bottle , no carbonation. Should I worry, or just let it be?
Al B
09/21/08 11:16 AM  
Re: Saison d'Epeautre style saison
Happy Feet -

What did you prime w/ and did you add fresh yeast at bottling time? I suspect you may need to add some fresh yeast (1ml or so to each bottle and re-cap). But you may want to wait another week or more just in case.

 
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