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korndog
08/12/08 01:29 PM  
Orval dregs viability
I pitched the dregs of two bottles Orval onto a beer. I was wondering at what point and how to tell if the bugs "took". Is this generally reliable?

Thanks

KD

Cisco
08/12/08 04:27 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
Try the beer after 6 months and you should start tasting the result. Brett is pretty hard to kill.
korndog
08/12/08 05:38 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
"Try the beer after 6 months and you should start tasting the result. Brett is pretty hard to kill."

Ok thanks Cisco.

korndog
08/19/08 12:35 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
This beer is coming around beautifully. Already good Brett character coming through. I'm surprised how quickly this beer is maturing. I added some clear candi sugar to the fermenter last week, which seems to have been eaten up. Using promash converter from brix, the gravity is down to 0.99981. The beer is completely clear too, brewed on July 18th. 1.076 OG Saison with WY1276. I thought I was going to have to age this beer for a long time. Does it seem resonable to have a beer like this be ready to drink 6-8 weeks after brewing?
Cisco
08/19/08 12:40 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
The brett character you're tasting is just from the Orval bottles. Brett will take a lot longer to take over the beer. Try it in six months and it will be totally different!
Al B
08/19/08 12:42 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
Adding the sugar probably kicked the Orval Brett into gear so that is reasonable. Forgive me, what is WY1276, I don't see it on my cheat-sheet.
korndog
08/19/08 12:48 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
VSS strain, Blaugies. The stuff was awesome in primary. 1.006 in 8 days.

Yeah, I thought it was uncannily similar to Orval on the nose. Ok, I will let it sit for a while, but I can't believe how god this beer is.

Al B
08/19/08 01:24 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
If you intend to bottle it, go ahead. The FG is low enough, and the brew will continue to evolve.
korndog
08/19/08 01:37 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
Thanks Al. I hadn't decied wether to bottle or keg this beer and force carbonate. What sort of bottling strategy would you use at this point? Do I need heavy bottles? Priming sugar? Bottling yeast? Carb drops? Sorry for all the questions, but I ma new to the style.

Thanks

KD

Al B
08/19/08 01:47 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
I would use sugar of some sort, I don't think heavies are needed w/ your FG so low - I have not had a problem with my brett beers after a year in the bottle (below 1.007) using sugar as a primer.

The brett will do the dirty work (as Orval does for bottling). Although, if you have some other yeast, it doesn't hurt with a starting gravity of 1076. Your choice.

The main thing is having a dry product before bottling with bretts. Good luck .

Baums
08/19/08 04:02 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
As for the time before you get significant brett contribution... it can actually be pretty quick if you get the right strain. I dosed a clean Belgian-style pale ale with a strain of brett brux at bottling, and 2 months later the brett was very apparent (and delicious). There's no chance I was fooling myself--this was a blind taste test versus an un-bretted control bottle, that I gave to 4 people with unanimous results.

On the other hand, 3 other brett strains were also tested in the same way and their flavor contributions at 2 months ranged from zero to almost zero.

I'll try to remember to post the results of the 6 month tasting.

korndog
08/28/08 06:35 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
I just racked this to a keg and primed for carbonation. Whatever strain of Brett is in Orval, it is incredibly assertive. This beer has very strong character after only 4 weeks on the Brett. It's much stronger than the last sample I took ten days ago. I think it's just right now. Any way to slow down the action after it's carbed? This beer has been conditioning at about 60F. I assume that's ok for carbonation too?
WitSok
08/29/08 11:49 AM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
I find the Brett in Orval to be wonderful. The one time I used thr dreggs from two bottle of Orval, it worked fantastic. The Brett character peaked in about 8-10 weeks, and was clearly appearant before that time. It was my most successful competition beer.

I worked throught the beer rather slowly, so the last bottle was about a year old when consumed. The Brett continued to work during the year increasing the carbonation level. The last bottles had to be well chilled to avoid over foaming. I did not use any special bottles and did not having any breakage.

Cisco
08/29/08 12:26 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
If you want to stop the brett from continuing or at least slow it way down then store the beer at around 36F - it is what I do.
Baums
08/29/08 12:45 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
>The Brett character peaked in about 8-10 weeks

WitSok, what happened after 8-10 weeks? Did the brett get more assertive than you'd like? Did it diminish? Or do you just mean that it didn't change much?

WitSok
08/29/08 01:30 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
No, it did not become more assertive. Rather it seemed less complex. When it is young, I liked the leathery notes I would get. As it aged, the leather seemed to fade and the soapy notes increased some. At no point would I say it was bad, rather it was most interesting at the 8-10 week time period. Part of it could also been due to the hops fading with time.
korndog
08/29/08 01:37 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
WitSok - Glad to hear your experience with Orval is similar. I was just shocked at how quickly this beer got that fabulous Orval Brett complexity. I was thinking I would be waiting a long time to drink this. I am going to brew another batch of it right away.
Narvin
08/30/08 01:52 AM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
I've also gotten some fast results with Orval dregs. There was a significant aroma present after 3 weeks in the secondary with the dry hops. The first bottles had a mousiness to them, but that subsided and has turned into a more horse-blanket/slightly sour flavor after 2-3 months.

I have another batch going now... I'm keeping the secondary/ bottling conditioning under 60 degrees like Orval does to see if it will be slightly less horsey this time. The first batch was absolutely delicious, though.

korndog
09/06/08 04:06 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
I decided to prime this in the keg on the 26th of August. It's now at 25 psi at 65F. I guess i will start to cool it down and condition at 50F or so. The Brett is very pronounced at this point; even overwhelming. I hope this will change somewhat over time, but fear I should have crashed it earlier and force carbed.
korndog
09/14/08 03:04 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
My beer is overwhelmingly horsey at this point. I guess I fed the Brett too much. I suppose this is a lost cause at this point. The beer was soooo good for a brief moment in time. Any words of advise appreciated.

KD

ErikH
09/14/08 06:51 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
Well, you could always blend it with a non-brett beer to dial that back. Like a neutral pale ale sort of thing. Brew the blending beer and then taste test different percentages until you find what is correct for your personal taste, then blend.
korndog
09/14/08 09:06 PM  
Re: Orval dregs viability
ErikH

Looks like that's what I am going to do. I'll brew the same recipe and start the blending process. I might try blending it with some sours that my friend has too. Thanks!

 
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