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Scott R
10/31/08 10:05 AM  
Using brett from primary in secondary for another
I have been experimenting with brett brewing for a little bit now. I've used brett. as a primary fermenter as well as a secondary fermenter. (different strains)

Has anyone ever done a primary ferment with brett. then used a portion of the cake from the primary to "infect" a different beer in secondary? How did it turn out?

Al B
10/31/08 11:02 AM  
Re: Using brett from primary in secondary for anot
Scott,

I think the main variable of using brett is aerobic vs anaerobic environments. Other vairiables depend on the strain itself vs other strains.

The 3 strains I have used (WY lambicus, WL clausenii, Fantome).............

Every batch I have used brett in behaved in this way:

1. no oxygen (primary and secondary and bottling), results were acid production (lactic & other fatty acids but not acetic), well attenuated, some funk developing, fruity esters in addition to alcohol

2. oxygen (primary) - mostly alcohol instead of acid production, less wild, less funk, slightly fruity, well attenuated.

3. Adding sugar, DME, or dextrin to a brett beer secondary or bottling (no oxygen) - created more acidity, funk

No doubt in my experience, the Brett swap, and hearing others, oxygen is the major factor of the endproduct. Strain selection will also determine funk (fatty acid types such capric, isovaleric, butyric etc.,and tetrahydropyridine production). Temperature could play a minor role, and time of course.

Mike T
10/31/08 11:05 AM  
Re: Using brett from primary in secondary for anot
I did it with fine results. I did a 100% Brett A beer, pitched another beer onto the cake, then took some of the second cake and added it to an already fermented Imperial Stout. The Brett took it down another 10 points in a few months before I killed it.
SteveG
10/31/08 12:25 PM  
Re: Using brett from primary in secondary for anot
I did a primary ferment with C. once then finished it with Brett L. Very happy with the outcome. Also, my Brett Olde ale was fermented out with BC then finished with a shot of Fantome yeast. The Fantome actually started taking over!!
Scott R
10/31/08 12:37 PM  
Re: Using brett from primary in secondary for anot
I had followed the discussions regarding aerobic vs anaerobic environments. Last spring, I did a few ferments with brett C. Both used brett C as the primary fermenter. I made a lower gravity (1.045 or so) blonde type beer which I split into 2 carboys. I aerated one but not the other. With that particular experiment, I didn't notice much difference between the finished beers. I suppose it is possible that there was still enough oxygen in the non-aerated specimen that the brett C. didn't produce many of the flavors associated with anaerobic brett ferments.

Baums
11/03/08 10:39 AM  
Re: Using brett from primary in secondary for anot
Scott, how did you prepare your brett C for pitching? (did you use it right out of the vial, or build it up--and if so how, etc?) Also, what did the beer(s) taste like?
Scott R
11/03/08 11:20 AM  
Re: Using brett from primary in secondary for anot
Baums -

For the first brett C beer, I stepped the vial up several times, using a stir plate, to ~ 300 ml or so of pitchable slurry. That beer was pretty small, like I mentioned. (~1.045) One carboy got a good shot of O2 and the other received nothing.

I dropped a second beer (~1.090) on the cakes from the previous ferment.

In the first case, the beer (both fermenters) was pretty clean. It has a small amount of fruit "belgian" type ethers but I didn't really detect any brett. influence.

The second beer is still in secondary. I had a taste of it last night. It started fermenting a bit more when I transferred it to secondary. In fact, it still looks to be producing CO2. This beer doesn't seem to have much brett. influence. Mostly this one tastes a bit hot due to the amount of alcohol in it. (currently around 11%)

I am, in the next month or so, going to start another brett. primary ferment, using a different strain. I do plan on pulling a small amount of slurry from that ferment to use in secondary on a different beer. I feel that if I pitch less yeast and with less oxygen in secondary, I should see some differences.

ErikH
11/03/08 11:26 AM  
Another brett tale; Fantome question
I have rather an opposite sort of situation going on at the moment. I had saved the slurry from a batch in which I added cultured-up Orval dregs to a beer primaried with WY1762. I repitched the (assumed to be mixed culture now) sediment into a pale ale-ish thing as the primary fermenting agent. Blended some of that and bottled some straight, and had a further gallon left over due to the blending ratio and available bottles.

Well, I let this sit in the fridge in a sterilized plastic gallon water bottle for about 18 mos. "Rediscovered" it last week and as it smelled and tasted good decided to bottle with the addition of some fresh sacch. One thing that was interesting was in addition to the classic B. Brux flavors and aromas (horsey, almost quinine-like)it seemed like a cinnamon/spice aroma had developed, but no typical oxidized flavors (cardboard, sherry). I must admit I am curious what folks here think the effect of this long cold storage in a container that likely is pretty oxygen-permeable would have been?

Also, SteveG: Interested to hear your Fantome experience as I just did something similar. Grew up dregs of a La Dalmatienne for a day and added at bottling to a dark saison. Can you give some more info on your addition to the Brett Old Ale? Timing of the addition and also source/starter procedure?

Al B
11/03/08 11:54 AM  
Re: Using brett from primary in secondary for anot
<<seemed like a cinnamon/spice aroma had developed>>

A volatile phenol, most likely, Ethyl guaiacol developed.

Perhaps tannin like substances called coumaric and ferulic acid (precursors of ethyl guaiacol, ethyl phenol) were available from the mash. Yeast will grow slowly @ or around 40F.

 
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