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DBear
11/10/08 02:17 PM  
Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
Howdy All,

I plan on doing a BPA with this yeast - first time - and reuse for a Bel IPA or Stout (De Dolle - like). Anyone have any experieces using this yeast to share?

WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast

Clean, almost lager like Belgian type ale yeast. Good for Belgian type pales ales and amber ales, or with blends to combine with other Belgian type yeast strains. Biscuity, ale like aroma present. Hop flavors and bitterness are accentuated. Slight sulfur will be produced during fermentation, which can give the yeast a lager like flavor profile.

Attenuation: 73-80%

Flocculation: Medium

Optimum Fermentation Temperature: 67-70F

-Cheers

Al B
11/10/08 07:15 PM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
Not yet, I have it and hope to use it by the Holidays. Belgian Pale recipe too.
Mike Mraz
11/15/08 12:54 AM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
I was thinking of a bier de garde. With the slight sulfur notes and lager like profile I think it would do well. If I make it I will let you know.
DBear
12/10/08 01:57 PM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?

Update on the WPL515. No beer with a new yeast will taste as you expect but this yeast tasted nothing like I expected.

Recipe - BPA: Bel Pils 89%, CaraViene 9%, Munich 2%, IBU 26

SG 1054 FG 1.010 (reading at 10 days)

1)When described as "clean, Lager-like", "Biscuty aroma" I could almost taste every grain of Pils not a bad thing just unexpected. Light fruitiness at the end.

2)some fusel, I pitched yeast (2L starter) at around 75F but got it down to 66F in a couple of hours good ativity at 12hrs, up to the carboy neck in 24hrs pretty much done fermenting in in 3-4days about 3-4 days to clear. Fermented at 66F all the way through so far. It is fast and furious fermenter!

3)"Hop flavor and bitternes is accentuated" Boy howdy!. The beer is still young but if the bitterness stays at this level next time I may drop some IBUs. I might just lager for a week at mid 40's in secondary.

Should be interesting to see how this changes over time.

-Cheers

Al B
12/10/08 02:29 PM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
<<some fusel, I pitched yeast (2L starter) at around 75F >>

Thanks for the update, try to pitch cool next time <67F.

Rob B
12/15/08 11:13 AM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
I have had a BPA that was fermented with 515, started it around 64F and let it finish around 72F. It has very little "belgian character". It was extremely clean, too clean for what I want in my belgian pales. I think it would work great for dubbels, dark strongs, etc. I like a bit of esters/phenoilics in my pales.
Rob B
12/15/08 11:32 AM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
I know this is supposed to be the De Koninck strain, but I have never had this particular beer. Is it estery/phenolicy?

I know my BPA's get dinged in comps for not being De Koninck-like!

DBear
12/16/08 10:23 AM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
RobB

I fermented my 515 BPA at 66F and I thought lower temps would contribute to more esters. The esters are very subdued. It is very clean and its been a long time since I had a De Konick but I loves me a Rare VOS and that has definate esters.

Mike Mraz (this thread) is thinking of a bier de garde. since it is clean and accentuates hops and malts maybe a stout or IPA - it gave me a fast, stong ferment.

- Cheers

Al B
12/16/08 11:03 AM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
I suspect the pitch rate will also play a role in yeast flavor for this strain as well as temperatures. There has been plenty of discussion surounding belgian strains being slightly underpitched where "growth phase" contributes flavor before fermentation begins. Of course, proper aeration will be key, but that's my plan for this brew.
Rob B
12/16/08 11:08 AM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
Ahh, underpitch...good idea. I have been wanting to use this strain myself. I will just underpitch and see what that does.

Keeping it clean, I could see it working great in a belgian stout or IPA!

DBear
12/27/08 11:03 AM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?

ALB & RobB

How did your beers turn out?

I did 3wks in primary at 66F and has been bottled for a week to-date (bottle conditioned). It's still early but I'm not feeling the love from this yeast. Fusels have disipated and am I really noticing the "lager-like" character at the end. There is only a slight, and I mean slight, fruitiness to date. I don't remember what De Konnick tastes like but I do remember I liked it and I would have written De Konnick off if it had the lager characteristic. As I said it's still early and I am hoping for some changes. In terms of pitching, I am just getting to the place where I am pitching the "correct" amount of yeast, I will wait until I am more comfortable to experiment with reduced pitching rates.

- Cheers

Rob B
12/28/08 10:13 AM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
I have yet to play with this one and underpitching. I really love my BPA's with the Wyeast 3522 or WLP 550, so I am in no hurry to change it up.

I do like the thought of a Belgian Stout or IPA with the WLP 515 though.

Al B
05/06/09 11:31 AM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
<<How did your beers turn out?>>

I brewed a belgian pale awhile ago and remembered this thread.......I followed JZ's recipe in BYO - I was not happy with the brew. No issues with off flavors or anything, I would agree on the clean lagerlike, slight fruit, no spice - not very biscuity , no fusels though when fermented @ 70F. Fast ferment.

"Brew like a monk" states Dekoninck ferments up to 77F,

I think that will be the next go around (and more Vienna malt).

DBear
05/06/09 12:58 PM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?

Hey Al B,

I also used JZ's recipe in BYO - the hoppier version. Interesting that you fermented at 70F and mine was at 66F and we basically had the same flavor profile. I wonder if bumping it up to 77F would have any pronounced flavor change. For my part I love Ommegang's Rare Vos BPA and I would love to get close to that. I do not think 515 will get me there and I believe Ommegang also uses some spice. Good luck with the higher ferm. temp and let us know how it goes

-Cheers

Al B
05/06/09 01:35 PM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
Ommegang does use spice in the Rare Vos (anise star for sure - not much, possibly some orange peel I think).

515 won't get you there - I would reculture from the bottle for best results.

I think 77 is worth a shot, then lager for a few weeks. I prefer a touch more hops (in the BPA sense) and biscuit also. There's also a new malt out - Global Kolsch malt rated at 4.5L - a touch more than vienna malt that may be something to try here.

Al B
07/12/09 05:00 PM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
Update:

A second batch went MUCH better this time - quite pleased w/ the results. The Antwerp was pitched @ 68F and let rise to 77F for 5 days as per Brew like MOnk. Also, the recipe was altered. For this pilot batch of 3.25 gal..........

3.75# Global Kolsch malt 4.5L

2.5# Castle Pale

0.5# toasted carafoam (I was runnin' low on biscuit)

6 oz Biscuit malt

1.5 oz Saaz 60'

0.25 Saaz 10'

0.5 oz Saaz 1'

OG 1057

FG 1006

love those 3 gal corny kegs.......

Al Biscuit

Spidey
07/12/09 10:17 PM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
Al,

You say you pitched the Antwerp @ 68F. Did you grow a starter? If so, how big? I've noticed huge differences with other Belgian strains depending on pitching rate, so I'm curious how this super-clean Antwerp yeast deals with pitch size.

DanF
07/13/09 06:54 AM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
Al - How is that Kolsch malt? I've never used it and wonder how a 100% Kolsch would turn out (seems like it would be way too dark for a traditional Kolsch though). Is its use in Belgian ales typical?
Al B
07/13/09 07:57 AM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
<<You say you pitched the Antwerp @ 68F. Did you grow a starter? If so, how big?>>

Good question. I did a step-up starter to 2.5L, pitching a slurry of about 50-75ml. I was in kind of a hurry, so I kinda eye-balled it. I don't think the rate was as big of an impact compared to the other Belg. yeasts.

<<How is that Kolsch malt?>>

Its like Vienna, rated alittle darker. I don't know if any Belgian uses it, but it seems nice for this application. Definately too dark for Kolsch ironically.

kscomp0
09/10/09 04:07 PM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
Al B, you wrote "A second batch went MUCH better this time - quite pleased w/ the results. The Antwerp was pitched @ 68F and let rise to 77F for 5 days as per Brew like MOnk."

I was hoping that you could answer a few questions for me. I am going to do a BPA with WLP515, but I would like to know a little more about how this yeast behaves.

When you pitched the 515, did you let it rise to 77 on its own?

If so, how long did this take?

If you heated it, how fast did you take it up from 68 to 77?

I know in BLAM it says "Pitched at 65, rises to 77 in 4 - 5 days".

I ferment in glass carboys in temperature controlled water baths. I am currently doing a Saison with 3711 and am increasing the temperature linearly over 5 days from 65 to 77. I was going to do the same thing for the WLP515, but I am now wondering if I should be increasing the temperature faster and then holding at 77.

With the 515, I am trying to get a nice, crisp spicyness, minimal esters, and the lager-like quality.

What were the characteristics that made you say "went much better"?

Cheers.

Al B
09/10/09 07:15 PM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
<<When you pitched the 515, did you let it rise to 77 on its own?>> Yes. It got there overnight I think. It's a strong fermenter, so in 12 hrs or so. BLAM actually says "pitched at 65, rises to 77, 4-5 days" which to me says its fermented 4-5 days in primary total - not taking 4-5 days to reach 77. If its not underpitched, fermentation will be strong building momentum and reaching 77.

I like having a water bath ready for belgians in case it doesn't reach desired temp. However, I wouldn't force it to soon, monitor add then add to water bath - if necessary. Again, make sure the yeast is healthy and not underpitched to minimize esters.

<<"went much better"? >> more spice from the yeast, but also I preferred the grain bill on the sec. batch (more biscuit flavor).

kscomp0
09/11/09 02:44 PM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
Thanks for the replies, Al. I have 515 on the way, and I will post my results.

Cheers.

kscomp0
11/03/09 11:57 AM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
Al,

I did not get the spicing that I was looking for out of my last batch. I was expecting a peppery spice, but I really did not get any spice at all. I pitched about 75 ml of slurry at 65F and rose to 77F within 24 hours aided by a water bath. Fermented for 5 days and cold conditioned at 31 for 2 weeks.

Is the information below correct?:

Peppery spicing is composed of phenols.

Phenols are promoted at lower fermentation temperatures.

Variables that minimize esters will promote the perception of phenols.

My confusion is that these seem to conflict with your results (higher temp. producing more spice) and what the commercial breweries do.

What variables would you recommend adjusting (pitch rate, o2, OG, etc.) if I want to promote peppery spices?

Cheers,

Kevin

Al B
11/03/09 01:28 PM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
I didn't mean there was much spice - just seemed more so, sorry for the confusion. It's not a saison yeast in that respect. I wouldn't expect that much of pepper spice w/ 515.

If your looking for peppery spice, I would add a different yeast or add a pinch of cracked pepper. Or perhaps a mashing at (I think) 113 for formation of ferulic acid for some clove (phenolic) precursor for fermentation (as in hefeweissen)?

kscomp0
11/03/09 02:02 PM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
Thanks Al.

I have 3711 (French Saison) that I may try in the recipe.

This is also for my own education. I am trying to figure out how these brewers, with Duvel or Leffe for example, get that background peppery spice from their yeast. Their outcomes seem to conflict with the expected results of the fermentation schedules I have read.

brewinhard
11/03/09 06:42 PM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
Could not some of that peppery spice background be contributed by the alcohol that is being produced? Some of the alcohol flavor might be construed as pepper spice in the beer.
Al B
11/03/09 08:16 PM  
Re: Experiences with WLP515 Antwerp Ale Yeast?
ks,

One of the most confusing table with belgian yeasts I've seen is located on the WL site (under Belgians PDF). Take a look at it in respect to temperature fermentation. Descriptions of flavor all over the place. Depending on the yeast strain, phenolics can develop at high temps.

For me, I was kinda shooting for DeKoninck. Upping the biscuit flavored malt + extra Saaz (spice?) was nicer and pretty close, but I dunno if I'll "nail" it either with just WL515.

 
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