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tripelbeam
12/15/08 01:09 AM  
smallbeers
Does anyone here make beers with second runnings from their spent grain?

What kind of hops would be appropriate with a 3gal batch of 1.025 beer?

SteveG
12/15/08 07:20 AM  
Re: smallbeers
Very few low alpha ones! That's even light for a Berliner weisse OG, my recipe for that brew (1.035) uses 3/8 oz. of Saaz.
ErikH
12/15/08 12:46 PM  
Re: smallbeers
TB, you are referring to 'parti-gyle' brewing, a common historical method of making a strong beer and a weaker one in one mash. I have had some fun and success with this method, but am hardly an expert. The math for figuring the relative strength, color etc. of the two batches is fairly straightforward, though. The accepted wisdom for this method is summarized in this Randy Mosher article from Brewing Techniques:

http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.2/mosher.html

Good luck - let us know how it turns out!

MarkO
12/15/08 02:43 PM  
Re: smallbeers
I do that every time I make a pLambic, to get "mars/meertzen" beer for blending. I usually use the same 3-year old hallertauers from the pLambic, and add a couple of ounces of sugar to boost the original gravity above 1.030 (any lower than that is too watery for my taste).
Mike Mraz
12/16/08 01:00 AM  
Re: smallbeers
I have done a few. If I do a "small beer" I will add some DME or sugar. Most of the time it I will do this to try yeasts types.
tripelbeam
12/16/08 02:02 AM  
Re: smallbeers
Thanks Steve, sounds like I'm in range. Yes, very low alc. Perfect for pregnant women.

I re-used some hops dregs that I strained from the first batch as it went to fermenter, then added 1/4 OZ. Styrian Goldings 4%AA. And some orange peel, coriander (1-2 gm), and 1/4 0z.(same hops) for Aroma.

<<I do that every time I make a pLambic, to get "mars/meertzen" beer for blending.>>

I'm not that familiar w/ these beers MarkO, could ou tell me more? I might feed this some DME or corn sugar. I am close to a peaking I think. I have a heater on it (trying to get up to 85 or so) And this was innoc. with WL Saison Blend 568 dregs that were started 8-10 hrs prior in a 300ml solution.

Questions now are:

Are these hops way to low? Dry-hop? Sounds like based on Steve's Berliner low grav. I'm OK.

I have some bugs (Al's Bug farm II) which I will be adding to the "parent beer" of this small beer. Should I add bugs to this as well?

Add sugar for a better beer? Is 3.5 OG is significantly less watered down than 2.5?

SteveG
12/16/08 08:10 AM  
Re: smallbeers
I'm not so sure this is a question for a brewing forum, but I wonder if a beer innoculated with bacteria is good for a pregnant woman?

One other thing. So I did this beer dry hopped with Amarillo last year. As I pulled them out of the keg I noticed how nice they still smelled. It made me wonder if reusing them was a viable idea. If you do please let us know!

>>Add sugar for a better beer? Is 3.5 OG is significantly less watered down than 2.5?<<

I would imagine this is just a question of math. Though both are very low I would think 2.5 would be a lot more watery. But under the circumstances that may be preferable.

Baums
12/16/08 10:57 AM  
Re: smallbeers
>> Add sugar for a better beer? Is 3.5 OG is significantly less watered down than 2.5?

This is what I was getting at in a thread a few months back when I asked why we choose to add sugar to a tripel, rather than just leaving it out. (Note: I ask not because I think it's a bad idea--quite the opposite--but because I wonder if we really understand what we're doing.)

Replacing malt with sugar will naturally lighten the body of the beer. But of course that's not the comparison we're talking about--the question here is what happens when you *add sugar* to a recipe (or leave it out).

When I brought this up before, at least one person said adding sugar would make the beer taste lighter. But in this context, Steve (and maybe Mike?) suggests the opposite might be true. I'm not sure what (if any) effect I think added sugar has on "body"--but it's an interesting question why pure sugar is or is not added to various beers.

SteveG
12/16/08 12:07 PM  
Re: smallbeers
>>why we choose to add sugar to a tripel<<

Baums, good question. The best answer I ever heard for this came from Don Feinburg or Vanberg&DeWulf (importers). He sees Belgian beer as more than a drink but as a component of the Belgian culinary experience. For this to be the case beer can't be too heavy or it would satiate you and kill the food component. But there are some flavor nuiances that come from higher gravity that can make beer a more attractive alternative to wine with a meal. The answer is to make a beer that is high in gravity but without the residual sugar that can leave. So they use highly fermentable adjunct sugars. Both the "more taste" and "less filling" crowds are happy.

I think sugar is on the table here because this is a second runnings beer so more malt is not available. But you pose another good question, is it worth the extra gravity if it is not coming from malt? Hummm, dunno. But, as I said, it may be that the extra gavity is unwanted anyway as this is a pregnacy beer.

MarkO
12/17/08 01:36 PM  
Re: smallbeers
Regarding "mars" beer:

Unfortunately, I have never been able to find much in the way of information for the making of this beer. It is supposedly made from the second runnings of a turbid mash for lambic, and was used as a faro blend component; its name derived from the fact that it would not be brewed after March.

I usually just brew the second runnings, then either spontaneously ferment it, or add a yeast culture, depending on what I want to do with it.

SteveG
12/18/08 11:49 AM  
Re: smallbeers
>>...and was used as a faro blend component<<

I suppose it depends on who you ask. Well over a year ago there was a lengthy discussion across the street on faro, Dan Shelton made a very convincing case that real faro is never bottled. The short of it was that when lambic went bad (I mean even from our perspective!) and became undrinkable they would salvage the beer by dosing it with dark candi sugar. Thing is if you bottle that you make glass grenages, so it was always done with the intent of drinking from cask and quickly. Given this concept, there would not be a blending with another beer. Also, faro stops being a style and essentially becomes a last-ditch dispensing technique.

Is this true? Damned if I know. But I will say it finally made faro make sense to me. I mean given the bugs in lambic what could thouroughly fermented candi sugar do other than up the alcohol? But some stick to their guns insisting faro is a legitimate style of beer. I don't think they have reason on their side, but who knows? Anyway, I personally doubt that any second runnings were a faro component in any traditional sense.

triplebeam
12/18/08 11:15 PM  
Re: smallbeers
Interesting MarkO, I have been wanting to try the new WL Bier de Mars yeast. To my knowledge this was ale yeast, lagered and low alcohol similar to bier de garde. This might be a good time to Lager it is consistently 40F lately, out here in CA that's cold?

As far as bugged beer and pregnant ladies...

My nieghbor swears Brett beers upset his stomach, is this common?

I'm checking gravity and going into secondary tomorrow. I'll see how the hops are holding up as well.

MarkO
12/19/08 06:48 PM  
Re: smallbeers
Yup, I recall the faro thread. Steve's arguments make more sense than my uninformed claim. I should say, I make something that I call "meertzen."
 
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