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Author Replies
Al B
02/22/09 09:26 AM  
WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
FYI

Looks like Wyeast's next bunch of seasonals will be:

1) 3763 Roeselare

2) 3789 Trappist blend (Orval?)

3) 5151 B. clausenii

ChadYak
02/22/09 10:39 AM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
hmmm B. clausenii re-released.. That could be nice. Anyone beside MikeT use this strain much? I've people say it is quite a mellow brett

Where were you blessed with this information or is that a tight lips type thing?

Al B
02/22/09 02:51 PM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
Nope. Just saw it advertised in BYO.
Seanywonton
02/23/09 12:06 PM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
Do you have a link with those yeast descriptions?
Al B
02/23/09 12:25 PM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
Haven't seen any info yet. I don't know if the 5151 is the same as B. anomulus, and I'm guessing the trappist blend is Orval (what else could it be?).
Baums
02/23/09 01:09 PM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
Very interesting.

Names are tough. Such as--we've all heard the generally accepted "common knowledge" that b. anomalous and b. claussenii are similar. (By the way I think this stems from one or two statements made by one or two people, repeated 1000 times.)

From one perspective, that "knowledge" is ridiculous because there are only two currently accepted bretts/dekkera: bruxellensis and anomalous, each containing tens or hundreds or thousands of strains, many with very different properties. And this has changed many times over the decades, and could change tomorrow.

From another perspective, if we are only talking about the strain that has been sold by WLP as claussenii versus the strain that has been sold by WY as anomalous, perhaps it makes sense. What a WY claussenii would be, is anyone's guess.

I'd love to know why the yeast companies sell their strains under the names they do.

Al B
02/23/09 02:22 PM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
Taxonomy drives me nuts (and I should be used to this). They change all kinds of bug names all the time - Who are these freakin' people? Then they get cute and add SUBSPECIES to the species, like I gotta spit out more Latin tongue-twisters.....I'm sorry, did I say Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. delbrueckii? What I meant to say was Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. FREAKIN' bulgaricus! GAH! Good thing I have a homebrew stashed away in my desk here......
mtc
02/23/09 06:00 PM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
I spoke with Wyeast today about these upcoming strains. The Trappist is certainly Orval. The Clausenii is not the Anomulus under a different name, although they said their test results gave off plenty of tropical flavors including pineapple. According to them, the White Labs Clausenii is, in fact, a mixed culture, which might go a long way toward explaining why so many of us have had such varying results from its use.
Al B
02/23/09 06:09 PM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
Thanks for the update, Tim!

<<White Labs Clausenii is, in fact, a mixed culture>>

Wow.

mtc
02/24/09 09:34 AM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
<<White Labs Clausenii is, in fact, a mixed culture>>

Wow.

Yeah, I was surprised too. If only I knew someone capable of confirming or refuting this claim, perhaps a microbiologist....

Mike T
02/24/09 11:42 AM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
I wonder if the new Brett C is the same strain that was used in the Old Ale blend. I assume it is too early for anyone to have results with that one.
ChadYak
02/24/09 11:52 AM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
I will be able to tell you very shortly.

I have an order coming in for my masters dissertation and one of then strains is WLP 645 - clausenii. I'm observing the characteristics of 6 or so Brettanomyces strains as primary fermentation yeast. I will be observing their behavor through various fermentations with different conditions, and then analysing the compounds produced during the fermentations to correlate together.

I will be streaking out all the cultures onto various agar mediums along with slants for storage, as I will be constantly re-building up cell counts for pitching into mini-fermentations.

So when I culture it into the various plates I'll report back... I have found that depending on the medium used the same strains behaves very differently. The morphology can seem strange. Also there is a phenomenon which has been reported and I have already researched and observed further in which beer adapted Brettanomyces cultures have differentl morphology then Brett which has been grown up in plate cultures and not been in a alcoholic fermentation. This could explain why Wyeast thinks it is two strains... PCR-RE is the only way to possibly tell for sure.. I can do that also, as I am currently doing it for a craft brewery in the US which someone here on the boards has already cultured up from dregs and used...

not sure if this is frowned upon but the beginning of my blog has been started. I'm doing the masters dissertation open source as I don't want people to have to wait to buy it when and if it is ever published... Just like this forum open discussion and answers freely and easily, why else would someone do research? http:// brettanomyces(dot)blogspot(dot)com

mtc
02/24/09 12:59 PM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
"I wonder if the new Brett C is the same strain that was used in the Old Ale blend."

MikeT-- I was under the impression that the brett strain in the Old Ale was brux as they claimed it would provide cherry and leather flavors over time.

ChadYak-- Looking forward to your results.

BPotts
02/24/09 04:55 PM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
You mean lambicus, mtc?
mtc
02/24/09 05:57 PM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
No, I was thinking of brux, even though that goes against the common wisdom of what flavors/atributes it produces. The bigger point, though, is that I'm surprised that it would be Brett C that would/might produce these flavors according to the manufacturer.
ChadYak
03/21/09 11:00 AM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
Hey mtc...

I have to admit when you said that Wyeast claims WLP 645 is two strains I was very skeptical...

So when I received the vials I pipetted out onto some MYPG agar at .5mL and 1.mL. Sure enough it appears to be pretty obvious it is two different strains. There are larger colonies which are quite dry looking and form a little tip in the middle. Then there is a blanket of very small colonies on the rest of the plates surrounding. The brett brux and brett lambicus didn't do this they had uniform single colony growth. Under a microscope it looks like two strains also. Almost a mix of B. brux and B. lambicus. due to the colony shapes.

Anyways I have tried taking from each colony type and growing up on new media... I'll observe to see it the two are different again and I'll also do PCR on them but now for a couple weeks... I'll tell you if it changes but it appears to be two different ones now..

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/DRw9UG0CAnklGxOXPdoW7w?authkey=Gv1sRgCPH2uaHonobtnQE&feat=directlink

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/p6vEtanoUnSrBmCSJDTxaA?authkey=Gv1sRgCPH2uaHonobtnQE&feat=directlink

there is two photos of the Brettanomyces claussenii from White labs..

Chad

mtc
03/21/09 12:43 PM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
ChadYak,

I was skeptical initially, too, but also hopeful in a way that it was true. Thanks for further confirming that fact. There has been so much variance among the posters on this board when using the White Labs Brett C that something beyond pitching rates, oxygenation levels, etc. seemed to be at play.

On a semi-related note, for those of you who still have the current WY Old Ale the brett strain included is indeed brett b as was confirmed in a recent conversation with Wyeast.

Nathan Smith
03/27/09 04:59 AM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
Does anyone know for sure if 3789 Trappist blend will contain Brett (probably B. Bruxellensis if anything). I really enjoy working with WLP510 in non brett, as well as brett beers and I'm curious how close WLP510 will be to 3789.

Either way, I'm looking forward to 3763 Roselaire for the first time this year...

mtc
03/27/09 09:46 AM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
According to Wyeast the new VSS Trappist blend does indeed contain brett b.
tripel666
06/03/09 08:44 AM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
Has anyone brewed with 3789? I've got a pack coming tomorrow. Wondering what kind of results this blend gives. The Brett is Brett B. for sure? Thanks.
DBear
06/04/09 08:10 AM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
T666,

Here are some threads for 3789 inquires that I made. I am interested in an Orval clone and would like help with fermentation temp info. and swags how long full attentuation with the brett would take.

http://www.babblebelt.com/newboard/thread.html?tid=1108752780&th=1240939925&pg=&tpg=1#1240944589

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14379&hilit=3789

Cheers

Tripel666
06/04/09 09:46 AM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
Dbear - The fermentation temp is broad - 68-85F. From WYeast site -

Wyeast 3789-PC Trappist Blend

Beer Styles: Belgian Specialty Ale, Belgian Pale Ale, Flanders Red, Oud Bruin

Profile: A unique blend of Belgian Saccharomyces and Brettanomyces for emulating Trappist style beer from the Florenville region in Belgium. Phenolics, mild fruitiness and complex spicy notes develop with increased fermentation temperatures. Subdued but classic Brett character.

Alc. Tolerance 12% ABV

Flocculation medium

Attenuation 75-80%

Temperature Range 68-85°F (18-30°C)

From this info, I'm plannig 2 beers at least. The first is a saison, I will ferment this near 85F for full spicy flavor and a very dry beer. The second batch will be a Belgian pale ale, not orval but same class. This pale ale I will ferment on the cool side, say 68-low 70's for a more rounded flavor. As for attenuation time , I'm I just going to monitor the specicfic gravity till its constant. hope this helps.

troy
06/04/09 11:47 PM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
Any word on the upcoming VSS strains for th summer? I am really hoping it is the saison variety again. Those were some spectacular yeasts - way better than 3724.
Chris Kennedy
06/05/09 12:37 AM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
Got this from Homebrewtalk

For those interested, the rest of the PC releases for 2009 are as follows:

Quote:

Jason,

As of now, we are planning on bring out the 1450PC Denny’s Favorite 50, 3711PC French Saison and the new 3739PC Flanders Golden Ale for release on July 1st. For fall, we are going to focus on lagers, with the 2487PC Hella Bock coming back, the 2782PC Staropramen and another lager strain yet TBD.

DBear
06/05/09 07:59 AM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)

Tripel666,

Sounds like a nice lineup. My question for attenuation is related to bottle priming. I have never used bugs and read various posts that it can take time befor its "done". Checking the gravity is the only way to be sure (2-3 days between readings) but if the brett works really slow I want to avoid bottle bombs. My plan is to bottle (based on grav drop between readings) when the grav hits the single digits. It should be safe as I can't see my processes or the yeast continuing to drop say from 1.009 down to 1.002 -but thats just me. Is this a safe bottling approach?

-Cheers

Spidey
06/05/09 12:40 PM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
3739 Flanders Golden Ale? Where do you all think that one is from? I would have guessed Duvel at first, but Wyeast already has a Duvel-originated strain with 1388 Belgian Strong ale. Any other guesses? We'll probably have to wait for at least a description before getting any closer to an answer.
mtc
06/05/09 12:59 PM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
Spidey,

According to Wyeast the new Flanders Golden Ale strain is derived from Gulden Draak.

B-Dub
06/05/09 02:04 PM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
If the yeast is from Golden Draak, does that mean it would be a good yeast for Piraat??

One on my personal favorites!

DT
06/05/09 02:12 PM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
Wyeast was nice enough to do a homebrewers tasting of their three (actually we only got two) new releases in April at the Tap in Haverhill, MA. They had Allagash brew up their Tripel and age it in wine barrels that Wyeast provided to them along with enough of each strain to ferment.

We didn't get to try the Roeselare, as Allagash said it just wasn't ready in time. Instead they offered up bottles of their 2008 Interlude, which was fantastic.

The 3789 blend tasted good with a nice fruity aroma and flavor, but they said they were still tweaking the proportions. The Brett seemed a little subdued and the beer itself seemed a little underattenuated, almost creamy.

The Brett C ferment was nice too, more funky and less fruity than the blend. Definitely had a bit of the funky poo smell in the nose that wasn't there in the blend.

Greg Doss at Wyeast really knew his stuff and I'm sure he'd be glad to share his opinions on fermentation temps for the strains among other things if asked.

DT

Tripel666
06/08/09 09:06 AM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
DBear-

Quote-

"Sounds like a nice lineup. My question for attenuation is related to bottle priming. I have never used bugs and read various posts that it can take time befor its "done". Checking the gravity is the only way to be sure (2-3 days between readings) but if the brett works really slow I want to avoid bottle bombs. My plan is to bottle (based on grav drop between readings) when the grav hits the single digits. It should be safe as I can't see my processes or the yeast continuing to drop say from 1.009 down to 1.002 -but thats just me. Is this a safe bottling approach?"

Thats what I was planning on too. Once the SG is in single digits, say 1.005 or less I'd carb/bottle the beer with a little less sugar than usual for a Belgian ale. That way the beer won't overcarb and no bombs.

-Cheers

Rob B
06/08/09 10:03 AM  
Re: WY seasonal for Apr-June (Bretts)
All of my Bretts have finished around 1.008, and this is pretty much what Vinnie from RR and Ron from JP have told me to expect from Brett.
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