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Author Replies
DBear
03/19/09 11:33 AM  
1st time using WY3742
Howdy All,

I will be using 3742 for the first time in a 1.060 saison.

-At what temp should I pitch at and should I let it free rise to 80s(?) or ramp up over a couple of days?

-For heating I plan on using a tub and water with an aquirium heater.

-I plan on using clear belgian candi syrup added in the fermentation after high krausen.

Any tips on using this yeast such as pitch rates, temps, time it takes to finish would be appreciated

-Cheers

Al B
03/19/09 08:37 PM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
DBear,

You mean 3724 I think (Dupont)? I haven't use it by itself in awhile - perhaps someone will chime in, but I would pitch in the 70s and free rise up into the high 80s.

Ross
03/19/09 10:49 PM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
I agree with Al. In addition, after it takes four weeks to settle down and the final gravity will not drop below 1.015....take a sip, make some notes, then dump it and use 3711 next time. :)

John L
03/20/09 03:53 AM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
Sadly, I know exactly what you're talking about
Rob B
03/20/09 07:00 AM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
Unfortunately, the other saison strains, like 3711 or 3726, only came out in the summer. So, if you want to make a saison any other time you are stuck with 3724 or WLP565.
Al B
03/20/09 07:52 AM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
.........unless, of course, Al's yeast blend de Saison makes another return! ;D

Seanywonton
03/20/09 11:14 AM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
Ross, my experience with this yeast(WY3724) is that it is slow, but it will get you down to the single digit FG's if everything else has been done right. WLP565 is the one that is really, really hard to finish out low with.

3711 is the only other saison yeast (IMO) that has the proper fermentation flavor/aroma profile. The others just seem a little 1 dimensional.

BPotts
03/20/09 03:05 PM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
While I've never used this strain myself, I've heard one just needs patience, and that it will finish if it you give it plenty of time.

I've heard WL's saison 2 strain does not act like that, and can certainly attest to the wonders of WY3711 and the farmhouse (3726?), but alas, they are not year round.

Rob B
03/20/09 05:08 PM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
According to Farmhouse Ales, Dupont is fermented at 85F-95F. I have heard if you ferment that high the beer will typically finish in a week. So, I thought about next time pitching at 85F and letting it go up to 90F.
Ross
03/20/09 10:31 PM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
I used this yeast a bunch and can say it will usually finish below 1.010 if the temp is brought up over 85*F. But you may get sulfur along with a lemony flavor which to me, is horrible in a Saison. Sometimes this yeast just flips you the bird and takes the month off. Very inconsistent and like Sean said, one dimensional. Dupont has a wildness and funk to it that 3724 does not have. Wyeast needs to make good on their word to make the 3711 or 3726 yeast the year round choice. Even the Dutch Castle yeast makes a better Saison than the 3724.
Cisco
03/21/09 06:55 PM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
All the mentioned saison strains love to be fermented very warm. I just finished several batches using 3711 & 3724 and I fermented them at 85F.
ErikH
03/21/09 11:51 PM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
I have had very mixed experiences with this strain, none totally satisfactory. While I have never encountered a stuck fermentation or overly high terminal gravity, often it has just failed to generate the desired flavors (tropical fruits, peppery spice) despite being fermented in the right high temp range, etc. etc.

And recently I had a hugely disappointing experience with really objectionable sulfur-y off flavors coming from it. Fermented at 78-82, attenuated very well, but were just undrinkable. Two consecutive batches (a Grisette and an SD clone) were hit bad by the brimstone stick.

I must say, after tasting in particular Seanywonton's Saison 566 in the recent swap, the WLP566 is probably my yeast of choice for the next attempt.

DBear
03/22/09 09:03 PM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
Thanks everyone. You confirmed information that I had read about the yeast in terms of mixed fermentation results.

Cisco.

You fermented at 85F, what temp did you pitch at and did you let the temp free rise or ramp it up?

-Cheers

Seanywonton
03/23/09 09:26 AM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
The highest temp I have pitched at with a saison strain was 82 degrees for a strong (9%) beer, using WLP 565.

This beer was definitely fuselly! Not terribly so, but I'm just saying that you can get fusels from pitching these strains too hot. I would try not to pitch higher than 70-72 if at all possible.

Cisco
03/23/09 12:15 PM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
The wort was properly chilled after boiling (probably mid 60s to low 70s) and then the yeast was added. Then I applied two fermwrap heaters to the bottom of my conical fermenter and started heating it up to 85F. It took a full day to reach 85F.
Baums
06/18/09 10:56 AM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
Cisco do you happen to remember how long this 3724 batch took to ferment at 85F?
Cisco
06/18/09 11:46 AM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
I let it sit in the fermenter for two weeks and it was done.
Narvin
06/18/09 01:23 PM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
Quasi on-topic: I cultured my latest Saison yeast from a bottle of Dupont. 50ml -> 400ml -> 2.5L starter. Pitched in the low 70s and kept it in the low to mid 80s using a small desk lamp with a dimmer in my chest freezer.

In 5 days, the gravity went from 1.055 to 1.008, and it seems to be finishing around 1.006. It's not bottled yet, but the hydrometer sample was extremely spicy and fruity, very much the flavors I was looking for.

Cisco
06/18/09 04:39 PM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
Yes, it is a known fact that the yeast directly from a bottle of Dupont will act correctly and finish with a low gravity as opposed to the White Labs version which should not be on store shelves.
Baums
06/22/09 11:01 AM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
I hadn't used 3724 in several years but I felt like messing with it again so a couple weeks ago I made a 1.25L stir plate starter, pitched into 5G of 1.054 wort at 75F, and the next day ramped to 87F with a brewbelt and held it there. 2 weeks later... 1.023. So there's another data point. (BTW I'm certain the wort is much more fermentable than that.)

I'm not sure what (if anything) I could have changed to get this 3724 to ferment with Dupont-like 5-7 day speed. Anyone know? If not, I'll probably do the exact same thing again but with bottle yeast instead of 3724, and see what happens.

Rob B
06/22/09 06:54 PM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
Baums, I have heard that if you pitch around 75F and get it to 90-92F fairly quick you can indeed finish in less than a week. I have always been too scared to pitch that warm but don't fear really high finishing temps.
petec
06/22/09 10:00 PM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
Your experience with 3274 echoes mine. Even with a starter, it never did well. Of course, i could only do room temp.

cheers petec

Spidey
08/31/09 11:09 AM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
I cultured up some Dupont yeast from the bottle; starters tasted good (dry, spicy, very Dupont-like). I wasn't ready to brew when the starters were at their peak, so I refrigerated them. Maybe this is where I went wrong. I figured this would get the yeast to floc anyway, then I could pitch a more concentrated slurry. I pitched something on the order of 2 cups concentrated yeast slurry into a 5g batch. Pitch temp was 65F. I let it free-rise at room temp and within 24 hours it was 80F+ (my stick-on thermometer only goes to 82F). It stayed like this for a couple of days, fermenting nice and steady. And then, low and behold just like WY3724, it crapped out. Checked the wort yesterday, 2 weeks into fermenting and it's still very sweet (probably mid 1.020's). Airlock is bubbling about once every 10 seconds. House temperature is now 78F, so that's where the fermentation temp sits now too. Do I put the carboy somewhere warmer? Do I just let it sit for a couple of months? Do I pitch more yeast? I have some WLP510 slurry that could help bring it down some more gravity points. Ideas?
petec
08/31/09 12:54 PM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
I used cultured Dupont about a month ago and it did very well. Mine was refridged for about a day to drop the yeast out and then pitched.

It hit 1.004 after 18 days going from 1.057 OG. I fermented for 3 days at 70ish degrees and then went to 90+F for the next 2 weeks. I secondaried for another week but the gravity didn't budge beyond 1.004.

If the airlock is still bubbling, its still going....... You could put it somewhere warmer to speed it up. How big was your OG? Most people say to plan on a month of fermentation but some of us have done better by 2 weeks.

When you say sweet and probably mid1020s. Did you actually test the gravity or just taste it?

Only 2 weeks in, I'd move the carboy to somewhere warmer and then relax and let it go out to a month total and then start worrrying about more yeast or whatever.

For the record, how much did you pitch in terms of making your starter and did you oxygenate?

petec

Spidey
08/31/09 02:18 PM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
OG was 1.055. I only tasted it; I didn't test it. I pulled a little out, tasted it, and decided that it wasn't even worth pulling more out to test with a hydrometer because it was obviously not finished. I oxygenated, both the starters and the final batch, with ambient air through an aquarium pump (HEPA filtered of course) for a few minutes. Growing the starters up: I started off with just a cup of wort in the bottle. Then I added another 400ml wort. Then I split the yeast to get 2 starters going, one remained in the bottle, the other got moved to a 2 qt mason jar (about 2/3 full). So I suppose in all, I had about 1.75L of starter wort. I also added Wyeast yeast nutrient to the starters and the final batch.
petec
08/31/09 04:36 PM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
My starter procedure was:

pitch dregs from 750mL Dupont bottle into 500 mL wort in 2L flask. cork date was february this year.

mag Stir 24 hrs at 70F. No major fermentation action obsevarable yet. pitch another dregs from a second 750mL bottle into same flask. stir another 12 hrs at 70F. fermentation quite active. add 1L wort and stir 36 hrs more at 70F .again very active. the 70F temps were room temps and the flasks were a bit warmer due to stir plate action.

move flask to fridge and chill 12 hrs to drop out yeast. about 1/4" deep yeast in flask after the chilling is done. decant slurry to leave about 200 mL solution plus slurry in bottom of flask./

pitch into 5 gallons wort and add 1 min pure O2 24 hours after pitching.

so my pitch was atleast 4x since I pitched from 1.5L into one batch and you pitched 1.75L into 2 batches. also mine was made from 2 bottles versus your single bottle

I bet that the key tends to be excessively high temperatures that are too uncomfortable for most of us to enjoy as summertime room temperatures. Mine was fermented in a very hot garage at 90-95F temperatures and doesn't get opened up much during the day or night.

nothing like finicky yeast.... :)

cheers and hope it dries out nicely. since you didn't measure the gravity, maybe the sweetness you tasted is something else like alcohol sweetness, malt sweetness, yeast in suspension and thus masking what you were hoping to taste which I expected was dry, phenolicy.

last 2 questions, do you stir plate your starters and how long were they refridgerated? it makes a huge difference in terms of growing yeast. it helps to get the O2 in whcih they need to multiply many times and it also helps to get the Co2 out to minimize its impact on the yeast also. growing yeast for cell count isn't the same as fermenting beer - different goals - max cells versus pleasant tasting product.

-petec

Spidey
09/01/09 10:34 AM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
I don't think I was clear. I pitched 1.75L into only one 5g batch. Fermentation temps for sure never got up to 90-95F. I probably should have done something to ensure that the high temperatures were reached and maintained for a few days. Unfortunately, we're in a cool-spell now in VA too, so I've got that working against me now. Maybe I can borrow a heating jacket from my buddy. Also, my starters were refrigerated for a week before I brewed. That's probably a good part of the problem too. I only used ambient air, not pure O2, and I probably didn't get anywhere near 1 minutes' worth of O2 into the wort. I didn't stir plate the starters, just frequent swirling. Guess I expected too much more from the bottle-cultured yeast. Sounds like the bottle yeast can be almost as finicky as the Wyeast if not coddled and nurtured to the fullest. I'll try warming them up and cross my fingers! Thanks for the advice petec.
DBear
09/01/09 01:39 PM  
Re: 1st time using WY3742
Hey all,

Just getting ready to use the WY3742 (I had some requests for beers that I had to turn around quickly). Since the yeast is a few months old I thinking of doing a starter mixing the WY3742 with a newer tube of WLP568 - just so it can stall twice as long :).

I just did a 1063 saison using dregs from Ommegang's Rare Vos and Witte. Did a 400ml starter and bumped it to a 1L starter aerating by shaking and added yeast nutrients. Had a good fermentation, active in < 12 hrs, strong ferment, down to 1010 in one week, another week to clear with FG 1009. Nice flavor profile but somewhat fusely as I could only get pitch temp down to 72F thanks to a nice hot Maryland afternoon.

 
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