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Replies |
Al B
04/16/09 09:17 AM
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Will the "REAL" Roeselare blend please stand up
OK, OK. Wyeast makes a nice blend. But how about a “Roeselare” blend that actually contains some Rodenbach bugs? Say whaaa?!?!?! THAT”S RIGHT! NOW I UNLEASH MY SECRET WEAPON !!!!! I won’t wait for the seasonal release of the Roeselare blend…….No one dictates to me when to brew a Flemish Red…….dammit…..and for a choice beer as pyment (I mean payment), perhaps you can too!
History
It’s been cited there were at least 5 strains of yeast and at least 20 different cultures recovered in Rodenbach (Univ. of Leuven), where the initial fermentation was yeast & lactobacilli (alcohol & lactic fermentation, Lactobacilli under 5% including L. delbrueckii), and in the wood-tuns revealed Pediococcus (including P. parvulus), Bretts, and Acetobacters.
Al’s rodenBug blend:
The blend contains 10 organisms. Three isolates of the 10 bugs are from Rodenbach foederbier taken at Café Engelbewaarder. Three isolates are from New Belgium La Folie. After three trial Flemish red / Oud Brune batches, I have adjusted the organism %s accordingly into this final blend.
80 % Yeast
20 % Bacteria (no Acetobacter)
RodenBug usage:
Add to primary fermentation w/ Saccharomyces yeast of your choice or add to secondary; time will determine when it’s ready.
This blend took quite a bit of time to collect, isolate, and produce. SteveG has tasted the first pilot batch of about 10 months old (he passed the first test – he didn’t go blind). A few of you who have sent me awesome commercial hard-to-get brews in the past & present will be the first to try it out yourself.
Al rodenBug
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SteveG
04/16/09 10:04 AM
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Re: Will the ...
That taste made me wonder about the relationship between flemish sour beer and cherry. Like Alexander, except in that case the cherry is forced. And actually 3 Philosphers, not a flemish sour of course blended with a fruffy kreik. Really, making a sour with cherry is out there, Leifmans does it, no other specific brands come immediately to mind but I'm sure I've seen them. Whats the point...?
The sample I tasted the other weekend was mildly sour, no vinegar (as Al mentioned 'no Acetobacter') but a strong fruity backbone. The fruit: sour cherry. The source, and please correct me if I'm wrong here Al, brett Lambicus. A fascinating adaption of the Rodenbach thing, to really mean this I'd have to try them side by side but I think AlsRed was like Rodenbach classic but the hint of vinegar was replaced by a hint of cherry. Its a shame Rodenbach didn't think of that when they were 'cleaning up' the recipe!
I really like a hint of Acetobacter, but in this case I think it was replaced by something more apetising. It may well prove to be Flanders reds better looking younger sister! |
Al B
04/16/09 10:20 AM
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Re: Will the
I also like the Aceto taste as well, but in my opinion, is way to difficult to manage without blending. A batch can really get away from ya w/ Acetobacter under the right conditions - I recall a batch of Grand Cru at the BCTC that was very vinagarized.
The best way to go w/ Aceto is add a mother culture to a small portion of brew and let it turn (w/ the other bugs). Add to the main brew to taste, then condition. |
SteveG
04/16/09 10:35 AM
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Re: Will the
Anne and I had very little time at the Brugge Beirje (however you spell it), I had to pick my one beer carfully. I went for Rodenbach Vin de Cereale. It turned out to be a great choice. I will say though, as wonderful as the 10% pale flanders red was, the vinegar level was a hair too high. I wonder if that continued to develop in the bottle? I also wonder then if management by blending is enough to really reign in acetobacter or if you need to go a step further and manage by pasturizing then blending. |
Al B
04/16/09 10:58 AM
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Re: Will the
It should't continue under anaerobic conditions too much, at least, not by any Acetobacter. If I remember right, the Vin de Cereale was from a single foeder or cask, but I may be mistaken. |
Seanywonton
04/16/09 11:12 AM
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Re: Will the
Hey Al,
I'd love to get some of this if you have enough.
Thanks
Sean |
mtc
04/16/09 11:17 AM
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Re: Will the
Al,
I would love the opportunity to work with this blend. I predict some amazing beers coming your way in appreciation of your continued generosity.
Tim |
tankdeer
04/16/09 11:28 AM
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Re: Will the
I'd like in too. I'll definitely send you a couple bottles. I owe you from the bugfarm anyways. (Sorry - lazy) |
SteveG
04/16/09 11:30 AM
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Re: Will the
Was the foeder also 10%?
Oh, note to all who may respond to this thread and are new to the Al bug thing (many of you have demonstrated an impressive understanding of this!)...
Before you ask Al for the fruits of his months of effort you need to be prepared to offer a bribe! Think barter, like the bottle of Isabelle Proximus he got for a vile of his BugFarm. |
Rob B
04/16/09 12:03 PM
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Re: Will the
Hey Al,
I would love to get in on this, how do I send you something in exchange?
I have commercial stuff from NM, CO(La Folie?), etc or I have a brett pale ale I am getting ready to bottle.
I would up the anty for some 3726 too...lol!
Cheers, Rob |
SteveG
04/16/09 12:06 PM
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Re: Will the
La Folie - that's the spirit!! |
Al B
04/16/09 12:11 PM
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Re: Will the
Steve -
The Foederbier is unblended, unpasteurized, unfiltered Grand Cru served only from a hand pump from only a couple of taps in Europe. So more like 5-6% I think.
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Al B
04/16/09 12:44 PM
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Al's rodenBug blend
rob,
alan.x.buck@gsk.com
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SteveG
04/16/09 01:43 PM
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Re: Will the
At 10%ABV then it sounds like Vin de Cereale could not have been related to Foederbier unless the ladder was second runnings. Anyway, the Vin was great, but if I was a point guy I'd have knocked a few off for a bit too much vinegar. So ... yea to lambicus cherry presence in its place! |
john
04/16/09 05:02 PM
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Re: Will the
Al,
can I get in on this? I was actually planning to do a flanders red in the next month so this is perfect timing.
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Rob B
04/16/09 06:19 PM
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Re: Will the
Email sent, Al. :-) |
Al B
04/16/09 06:23 PM
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Re: Will the
John,
You & MTC are at the top the list for first-runners. Soon
I gotta go to New Orleans and get funky w/ da muzic. After that I'll see how many vials I can make and report back here. |
john
04/16/09 08:14 PM
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Re: Will the
Thanks Al! enjoy NO |
danger
04/17/09 08:32 AM
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Re: Will the
sounds awesome, gl! |
Tom from Raleigh
04/17/09 09:08 AM
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Re: Will the
Hey SteveG-
I also had Vin de Cereale at Brugge t'Bertje (however you spell it). I didn't mind the vinegar component, but I thought it could have used some carbonation as it was completely still. But then again, Cantillon Grand Cru is tastes great and its pretty still.
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SteveG
04/17/09 09:15 AM
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Re: Will the
Mine was, I guess the new BJCP word would be, petillant. It was not still, but it did not really head up either. There was definately a lacey thing going on though, a subtile bubble. I thought the vinegar was OK too, I'd just have preferred a little bit less. Maybe there is bottle to bottle variation? |
Mike Mraz
04/17/09 05:52 PM
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Re: Will the
Al, I would also like to get in on this. |
MarkO
04/17/09 05:58 PM
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Re: Will the
Please count me in too, Mr. Al Bountiful, if it's not too much to ask, and if there is room. Just picked up a new barrel that is looking for an infection of some sort.
and happy birthday, laissez les bon temps rouler. |
Al B
04/28/09 08:57 AM
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Rodenbugs
fyi,
I anticipate mailing a few vials out late next week after I get back from N'awlins.
mtc - Thanks for the RR beers. Your order will go out first!
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nahthan
04/29/09 01:22 AM
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Re: Will the
This looks amazing. Well done on the research and concept, Al.. I'm curious what the 10 bugs are from Rodenbach foederbier? |
MarkO
04/30/09 03:17 PM
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Re: Will the
Actually, don't save any for me -- I decided to use the new barrel to ramp up ambient pLambic production over here. They are coming out pretty good these days, and I'd like to make more. |
CDH
05/02/09 09:29 AM
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Re: Will the
Wow! AlB, you're the microbe managing maestro! I can't wait for reports on this one... |
Al B
05/04/09 09:25 PM
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Re: Will the
<<I'm curious what the 10 bugs are from Rodenbach foederbier?>>
Nathan - 3 of the 10 are from RF. One brett, one Pedio, one unidentified bacterium - Gram positive rod (not lacto), capable of assimilating various organic acids: lactic acid, acetic acid, and pyruvic acid. |
John A
05/05/09 07:58 AM
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Re: Will the
Hey Al, not sure if I missed the bus on this but I would like to try the blend if you have extra. I also need your addy so I can mail you a few bottles of the first bug blend. I just bottled it in march.
Cheers
John |
Al B
05/07/09 08:50 AM
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First round shipped
First round of RodenBugs are out this weekend to: John S, mtc, Rob B, Dan M, mrb.
Others will have to go on the ol' waiting list......I'll post when ready.
Belgian wheat WY (DeDolle)
Brettanomyces lambicus WY
Brettanomyces sp. Rodenbach Foederbier
RF1 Rodenbach Foederbier
Pediococcus sp. Rodenbach Foederbier
Brettanomyces sp. Ongefilterd Palm
Brettanomyces sp. New Belgium La Folie
LF1 New Belgium La Folie
LF2 New Belgium La Folie
Lactobacillus delbrueckii WY
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mrb
05/07/09 11:27 AM
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Re: Will the
Awesome! Thanks Al! |
