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ChadYak
04/25/09 08:32 AM  
Transcript from last Brett swap with Peter Bouckae
Hey I think it was SteveG but I can't remember.. Does anyone have the transcript from the chat that was the last Brett swap with Peter Bouckaert? I'm interested in reading through his comments and everyone else for that matter to see if I can pick up on anything mentioned.. Specifically when he was talking about inoculating with lacto bac from first runnings and then adding into the kettle for an addition of 100ppm.. To measure that is tricky.. or did he mean 100ppm infected wort to the entire batch?? Cheers,

Chad

Seanywonton
04/25/09 05:39 PM  
Re: Transcript from last Brett swap with Peter Bou
I don't know but check the interview with basic brewing radio he did maybe a year back. It's not too specific but he goes over the lactic process and I think he gives pH and amount of acidified wort.
ChadYak
04/27/09 12:23 PM  
Re: Transcript from last Brett swap with Peter Bou
cheers I'll check for that..
SteveG
04/27/09 04:05 PM  
Re: Transcript from last Brett swap with Peter Bou
Here you go:

http://www.babblebelt.com/swaps/transcripts/brett08.txt

ChadYak
04/28/09 03:34 PM  
Re: Transcript from last Brett swap with Peter Bou
Man Peter is a wealth of knowledge! He handed it out there. That was a great transcript a lot to take away from everyones rantings!!

SteveG... You still believe in your knob turning idea? Cause its were I'm sitting right now with the research. With the fermentations that are pure and anaerobic.. They tatse like damn normal beer. 5 almost six weeks full attenuation even from WLP 650 B. brux. Like a beer crisp and dry... Lacto amylovorus time I think...

The only beer which resembles a Bretta beer was WLP 645 which came with Pichia, and two lactic bacteria strains plus teh B. claussenii in the culture so go figure it tastes like a "bretta" beer.

Baums
04/29/09 10:00 AM  
Re: Transcript from last Brett swap with Peter Bou
"The only beer which resembles a Bretta beer was WLP 645 which came with Pichia, and two lactic bacteria strains plus teh B. claussenii in the culture so go figure it tastes like a "bretta" beer."

That might explain a lot. (BTW I've also seen some odd things after streaking 645 onto a plate.)

A mystery and source of discussion on this board is how some people get only a light tartness (or none) from all-WLP645 ferments, but others (Al, Steve, others?) have sometimes gotten serious sourness. And while a pattern has maybe emerged where lack of aeration seems necessary (but not sufficient) to get the sourness, nobody has been able to explain or even really speculate how this pattern fits into known brett biology. I'm not sure anyone's even certain what acid was produced in these beers.

Maybe this is behind that. Those who have gotten sourness... IF there was lactobacillus in your vial of WLP645, would it have made it into your beer? Or did you streak out the vial first and isolate the brett?

ChadYak
04/29/09 02:36 PM  
Re: Transcript from last Brett swap with Peter Bou
<<IF there was lactobacillus in your vial of WLP645, would it have made it into your beer? Or did you streak out the vial first and isolate the brett?>>

No what I'm reporting on is from the original vial propagated up and pitched into a fermentation. When I first opened the vial before propagating I took .1ml and pipetted it onto 4 plates. Every plate identical.

I have now gone back and and separated the B. cluassenii from it and have it as a pure culture.

I don't know what the two bacterias are, but I have them saved on plates if they'll survive in the storage fridge.

I don't want this to sound like I'm saying anything bad about White Labs. This is not that in anyway. I still buy their yeast and think they run a good company with great people. I have written Chris about this I also mentioned to him that my favorite of the mini fermentation is the "mixed" culture B. claussenii..

I think the variable of what created this is very easy. Acidity will be regulated by the temperatures. I have allowed mine to stay at 20-22 degrees C so what 70-72 F. Going on 6 weeks straight. I have had slight ingress of oxygen 3 times now to open and check the gravity and pH. In a pure oxygen maybe slight less acid but more importantly had I gone to a conditioning at a cooler temp say 10 even 15 the acid would be more subdude. Now take a homebrewer where it is hard to measure the middle of the fermenter it is easy to assume temps could get to 75-77 maybe higher. There you go right there you acids will go up. Now I being pretty general but this is my take on why people are getting the difference in acid levels.

I think B. claussenii is a decent bretta in a can as the mixture works well if your just wanting to see what could happen... But dialing it in... Not exactly...

Baums
04/29/09 05:48 PM  
Re: Transcript from last Brett swap with Peter Bou
I think I understand what you're saying--that the "mixed culture" was present even when you plated directly out of the vial. And you isolated the brett part and used it in experiments.

But my question was actually directed at the homebrewers who have gotten sourness. Did they use the WLP645 straight from the vial (or propped up from the vial), or did they streak/plate the brett out first? Most people probably didn't, but some might have as a first step toward putting the strain on agar slants.

I have to disagree that the variable that created sourness is easy--there was a lot of talk about it and it was pretty hard to figure out. Some people fermented well into the 80s or even 90s without getting a lot of sourness, so the temp theory doesn't really work on its own.

ChadYak
04/30/09 03:16 PM  
Re: Transcript from last Brett swap with Peter Bou
<<I think I understand what you're saying--that the "mixed culture" was present even when you plated directly out of the vial. And you isolated the brett part and used it in experiments.>>

I have after the fact gone back and cultured the brettanomyces strain out of the plates I made. But I took the vial after streaking from it and propagated it up before pitching into the fermentations..

I would like to hear what others think from their experience as it is a good question!

petec
05/01/09 11:51 AM  
Re: Transcript from last Brett swap with Peter Bou
maybe we could create a summary chart about 100%brettC brews done to date........

The choices people could select are:

generic beer styyle (blonde, dark, hoppy)

brettC source (WL/WY)

source storage (tube/slanted)

pitch size (small (just tube) or large slurry)

aeration at pitch (yes/no)

aeration of starter (if used)

stir plate for starter (if used)

fermnt temp (60-70, 70-80, 80+)

primary fermenter construction (plastic bucket or glass/steel or wood barrel)

secondary fermentor construction (same options as above)

primary ferment time

secondary ferment time

original gravity

bitterness IBU

aroma notes

taste notes

petec

ChadYak
05/01/09 12:18 PM  
Re: Transcript from last Brett swap with Peter Bou
Spot on! so people should post here with their results... Then they can be compiled after sometime....
FrancoisMtl
05/01/09 02:19 PM  
Re: Transcript from last Brett swap with Peter Bou
Hi,

I have been reading this forum for quite some time now but did not post messages often. I think the summary chart is a great idea and would be very helpful. I bottled a 100% brett C two weeks ago and would be happy to share the results.

Francois

 
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