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DBear
04/28/09 01:32 PM  
Wyeast 3789-PC Trappist Blend-1st time with bugs
Howdy,

I have a smak-pack of the Wyeast 3789-PC Trappist Blend that I have heard is close to Orval as a yeast for specialy ales. Here is the description:

Wyeast 3789-PC Trappist Blend

Beer Styles: Belgian Specialty Ale, Belgian Pale Ale, Flanders Red, Oud Bruin

Profile: A unique blend of Belgian Saccharomyces and Brettanomyces for emulating Trappist style beer from the Florenville region in Belgium. Phenolics, mild fruitiness and complex spicy notes develop with increased fermentation temperatures. Subdued but classic Brett character.

Alc. Tolerance 12% ABV

Flocculation medium

Attenuation 75-80%

Temperature Range 68-85F (18-30C)

Some questions:

- anybody use this yeast before and have tips?

- Is a different starter method required because it has bugs? - pitch rates, size to OG, starter ferment temp, etc.

- What would be the batch aeration regime for this since it has bugs?

- what's the fermentation profile? - extended time in primay/senconday, fermentation temps.

- Do I need to segregate cold side equipment from non-bug brews - buckets,hose, etc.

Any tips will be helpful

- Cheers

SteveG
04/28/09 02:49 PM  
Re: Wyeast 3789-PC Trappist Blend-1st time with bu
Sorry bro, I know this won't help but I have to ask...does this pack make any sense? I thought Orval was well documented as just bottle conditioning with brett. Would not adding it to the primary fermentation be out of context?
DBear
04/28/09 03:20 PM  
Re: Wyeast 3789-PC Trappist Blend-1st time with bu

Good question SteveG. That's why I turn to youse guys :) The relationship to Orval is something I heard anecdotally at my LHBS.

Is it blended for brett character that could mimic the Orval "taste" without a separate brett addition in secondary? That said, what is the sacc yeast its blended with? Also, would folks normally pitch a sacc and a brett together or would it be yeast wars?

SteveG
04/28/09 04:05 PM  
Re: Wyeast 3789-PC Trappist Blend-1st time with bu
Its is definately not that pitching the two together would be a distaster, by and large the primary would conclude, the sacc fall out, the brett would still be active and continue on its way. But one would have to ask why Orval would only bottle condition with the brett?

One could argue, and I would think effectively, that if Orval pitched the two together then kept reusing the yeast from batch to batch that the brett would slowly attain dominance making for significant batch to batch variation.

What I would ask is what would the effect be of subjecting the brett to full gravity wort and the condition of a vigourous fermentation? The sacch would do what yeast does, the wort temperature would go up, the chemistry of the wort would change, would this have an effect on the bretts behavior?

MashGordon
04/28/09 04:11 PM  
Re: Wyeast 3789-PC Trappist Blend-1st time with bu
I just toured Orval a couple weeks ago and I believe Jean-Marie said brett is added to the secondary with the dry hops. You could use Bastone for primary and brett brux for secondary instead. By the way, when asked what strain of brett they used he replied "Our strain."
DBear
04/28/09 04:45 PM  
Re: Wyeast 3789-PC Trappist Blend-1st time with bu

SteveG:

Even though I have no experience using brett,I can see your argument for strain dominace over time repiching in a commercial setting. In a home brew setting I'm not sure I would/could repitch this yeast and if I did it would probablly be only 2-3 times. As a home brewer this is starting to sound like a "brett in the box" starter kit for those new to bugs - like me.

MashGordon:

Love the Orval response "our strain"

Seanywonton
04/29/09 09:50 AM  
Re: Wyeast 3789-PC Trappist Blend-1st time with bu
I think Wyeast does a great job with their blends in general.

Even if it's not what Orval does, I'm sure they have done the test batches to get a similar fermentation character to Orval. A more authentic way would be to pitch brett in the secondary, but it wouldn't stop me from using this blend.

DBear
04/29/09 02:02 PM  
Re: Wyeast 3789-PC Trappist Blend-1st time with bu

Will there be pellicle formation and if so do I wait for the pellicle, etc. and all that entails to finish, or just bottle it between the end of primary and when the pellicle forms?

-Cheers

ChadYak
04/29/09 02:44 PM  
Re: Wyeast 3789-PC Trappist Blend-1st time with bu
<<As a home brewer this is starting to sound like a "brett in the box" starter kit for those new to bugs - like me.>>

Of course. Look its a company and Bretta is the new big thing. We all know that or else we wouldn't be here. This is a way to get it out there for more people! Most people like Orval it may even be one of the first Belgian beers people have... I say one of the first... So to all those home brewers that want to play with an Orval clone and don't know how to go about it.. Bam there it is!

<<when asked what strain of brett they used he replied "Our strain.>> Of course because it is a slurry of brett continuesly propagated containing what have you of bretta yeasts.. Thats my take on it and a little here say from random readings...

As for pitching them together no harm no foul. The Brett is always present when the lambic brewers pitch into a barrel and Sacch takes off and months down the road Brett decides to pop its head in and say hello I'm here.. No it has always been there it was just waiting till its turn. As this blend aims to do. As Sacch breaks down the Brett will also "feed" metabolize the trehalose released from non viable Sacch cells whos cell wall is being slowly degraded.

 
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