Welcome to the homeBBBrew board!
Like the BBB, the homeBBBrew board is not a club, just a place to talk about making beer. Is there a swap you would like to see happen? If we can find a few others who have something similar then lets do it!

NO SPECIFIC REASON FOR THIS LINK...
I just really like the work levifunk is doing!

PASSWORD PROTECTION: READ THIS BEFORE POSTING!
YOUR BBB USERNAME AND PASSWORD WILL NOT WORK ON THIS BOARD! If you want to post, you need to read this.

HomeBBBrewBoard
HotLinks!
Brettanomyces Brewing
E-Symposium Transcript!

Trouble making Trappists?
Discover Liquid Candy Syrup!
See what color impact to expect from liquid candy.

Search for:
Page:  1 2
Author Replies
Ross
07/27/10 04:53 PM  
Re: WLP565
No doubt. How many times have we heard this one before? This yeast is dumb.
brewinhard
07/27/10 04:55 PM  
Re: WLP565
I still don't understand why people continue to use this strain with it being such a pain in the ass. All the guys in my LHBC brew with it and get such mixed results. Some brews attenuate well and others just never finish low enough.

I guess if WL is all one can get than by all means good luck!

Adrian
07/27/10 05:29 PM  
Re: WLP565
"I still don't understand why people continue to use this strain with it being such a pain in the ass."

Mostly because I'm a stubborn SOB who's subconsciously convinced that I'm going to discover some amazing combination of tricks to get this particular yeast to do my bidding on a consistent basis. ;)

danger
07/27/10 09:45 PM  
Re: WLP565
3726.
Adrian
08/02/10 01:53 PM  
Re: WLP565
What a bizarre yeast. Head on 7/26:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v232/sbcelicagt/Beer/?action=view¤t=2ndfermentsaison1.jpg

Head on 8/2:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v232/sbcelicagt/Beer/?action=view¤t=2ndfermentsaison2.jpg

SG at 1007. 82% attenuation. Is it done? Who knows! If you recall, the grist was mostly vienna malt and ~5% oatmeal.

Beer is a little cloudy. Is this WLP565 or wild yeast? The head doesn't look like B. Clausenii (Have that in another bucket in the closet).

It's been at 75 degrees for the last week. Leave it alone or move it to a warmer spot? This morning I decided to rouse it one last time. A reasonable amount of C02 in solution this time.

Ross
08/02/10 04:44 PM  
Re: WLP565
Adrian;

I don't want to alarm you because I can't say for 100% but I think something isn't right. I've never seen that white-ish formation with any of the saison yeasts. You may want to draw a sample, give it a swirl and take a good snoot full to see if anything weird is going on. If you were getting little tan colored spots forming on the surface, I would say that's normal, but this seems like a new animal.

Ross
08/02/10 04:56 PM  
Re: WLP565
I also forgot to mention that if the beer was once clear and is beginning to cloud again, that has been my experience with a wild yeast infection. Also, the malt profile may be very bland and tasteless when a beer gets contaminated.

On a bright note, I liked the recipe with 95% Vienna. If this beer turns out, let me know what the malt profile was like. Also, looking at your photobucket, I like what you are doing with your bottles. Hand painting a bottle of a special beer seems very classy to me, especially for the Holidays.

Adrian
08/02/10 05:28 PM  
Re: WLP565
Hi Ross-

My gut tells me there's something wonky too. The head looked a lot like WLP023 (English beer yeast) towards the end of its fermentation cycle, but the cloudiness was a surprise.

It took a vial of B. Clausenii 7 weeks to reach this point in a Porter of mine:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v232/sbcelicagt/Beer/?action=view¤t=brew_brett2.jpg

It seems odd for it to act so quickly on this new batch if we assume the bucket was unclean.

The gravity sample I took seemed to taste and smell okay. Every so slightly funky but that may be the Saison yeast.

In fact, now that I think about it, the sample I took a couple weeks ago almost tasted like nothing. This new sample tasted more saison-like. Odd.

Adrian
08/02/10 07:44 PM  
Re: WLP565
I just realized that I should have post processed those photos a little. The 8/2 photo shows the yeast clumps more white than they are in reality. The clumps definitely have a beige yeast-like hue to them.

What does an acetobacter infection look like?

Adrian
08/02/10 08:06 PM  
Re: WLP565
(I wish this forum had an "edit message" function...)

Maybe it's lactobacillus plus leftover WLP565? I think we have a high powered microscope at work that I might be able to use. Would the pH drop a lot of it was lacto/aceto?

Ross
08/02/10 09:11 PM  
Re: WLP565
Oh gosh, you're asking me some things I cannot answer in regards to yeast morphology/biology. I hope Al B or some of the other yeast guys chime in to answer your wild yeast questions.

I would say if the gravity sample seemed good, then I'd roll with it a little while. As far as funkiness is concerned, alot of the saison yeast will output sulfur which adds to the funk. I try to do everything I can to avoid it but sometimes it still happens.

I've never had an acetobacter infection which I believe would give a vinegar like character to the brew. I'm not sure what a beer contaminated with this type of yeast would look like. Maybe there is some stuff on the web showing pics? Al B, anyone?

If you fermented a wild yeast in the same bucket you used for this beer, that could be it. I know many brewers who swear you can use the same vessels but honestly, I don't think so, at least, not plastic vessels. A case in point is the Better Bottles. I used to use these but could never totally rid them of beer smell no matter how I cleaned them. To me, if I can still smell the left over brew then more than likely organisms are still living on the surface or subsurface of the plastic. As a result of this, I got rid of the Better Bottles.

I am not 100% sure but I would think you would get a lower pH with lacto present. I'm not sure where it would drop to but I would guess in the upper 3's.

Adrian
08/04/10 11:30 AM  
Re: WLP565
Damnit. I think it's a Brett infection. I checked this morning and it looks like it's trying to form a thin matte translucent pellicle that's trapping dusty looking large bubbles in the process. Probably Clausenii based on the fact that I used that yeast before.

Ah bugger. Then again, maybe it will taste great. Since I know the pellicle won't drop out on its own, how long do I wait to bottle? Until the beer goes clear? Or perhaps it will drop clear in the bottles? This weekend will mark 4 weeks in the primary. Seems like a really REALLY long time for a 4% ABV beer.

Ha ha. Maybe Brett is the solution to the poor attenuation characteristics of WLP565.

BTW, the pH checked out at higher than 4.4.

brewinhard
08/04/10 06:58 PM  
Re: WLP565
You can bottle once the beer reaches a "healthy" terminal gravity. I believe you said you were currently at 1.007. That is more than fine to bottle it up. I bet it will taste great with the addition of a slight brett infection.
Adrian
08/05/10 11:51 PM  
Re: WLP565
Thanks for the advice. I'll probably bottle it this weekend.

I just checked batch #2 from this yeast. 2 weeks in the fermenter. 12 of those days were above 90 degrees. It still crapped out at 70% apparent attenuation. I guess I'll rouse it a few times and check the gravity again in a week or two.

On the other hand, the sample tasted great. Damn you WLP565 for being so finicky yet so tasty!

Adrian
08/10/10 12:24 AM  
Re: WLP565
For those of you playing along at home, it appears that batch #2 also got a Brett infection(?):

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v232/sbcelicagt/Beer/?action=view¤t=IMG_7036.jpg

This is day 18. Bottled #1 yesterday.

Tom
08/11/10 12:20 PM  
Re: WLP565
Are you sure that bubbly-krausen looking stuff is Brett? I had a krausen that looked just like that from a trappist Belgian yeast that's been in the bottle for 6 months and is showing no signs of infection. I also saw it on the Wyeast kolsch, 2565, after two weeks in primary and it also has no infection. I think it's just a weird krausen, a pellicle should be flat, not have large bubbles, cover the surface more uniformly and be whiter.
Tom
08/11/10 12:23 PM  
Re: WLP565
Here's the pic of my Belgian dubbel after 3 weeks in the fermenter. The krausen freaked me out but it was absolutely fine, this was bottled in December and has been stable since then:

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/2t2ix_7MlkEp8x4BK5dKgg?feat=directlink

Ross
08/11/10 08:30 PM  
Re: WLP565
Tom;

That doesn't look like an infection to me. It seems like it may be CO2 bubbles. Infections have a slimy look to them. Truthfully, I wouldn't ferment in buckets for many reasons. Go to glass or someday stainless and see if it makes a difference..I believe it will for the better. Just my .02.

Tom
08/11/10 08:33 PM  
Re: WLP565
Ross, that was exactly my point :) It was just what I would call a more abnormal krausen, but definitely not an infection. I thought it was weird because it occurred so many weeks after fermentation activity had basically ceased, but it wasn't due to anything but the S. cerevisae.

I've been happy with buckets and Better Bottles so far. I don't see any reason why you can't make a very clean, good beer in one. The only problem is the opaque sides obscuring what's going on.

Ross
08/12/10 10:47 PM  
Re: WLP565
These saison yeasts are bizzare sometimes. The only one that acts "normal" is the 3711.

I still can't get past the Better Bottles and I have alot of $$$ invested in them. My better half is talking about using them for wine fermentations. My bottles have the valves built in to them and that can be where the problem is, I don't really know. I love their stopper and airlock arrangement though.

danger
08/13/10 09:11 AM  
Re: WLP565
3711 is very consistent and easy to use but i'm not a huge fan. the beers just lack some lively/funky character that i find in dupont (the beer, not the yeast) and 3726. that being said i probably would never use 3724 for all the fermentation problems and don't get why others still do.
TimC
08/13/10 11:53 AM  
Re: WLP565
I've been trying different saison yeasts to see which I like the best and which ferments cooperatively.

Starter from Dupont bottle: Used this for 3 successive pitches last summer. First one I probably under-pitched and took a couple weeks to drop the last .010. Second pitch finished and was ready to bottle in a week, temp got into 90s. Third pitch was fermented cooler and took about a month to finish, but consistently dropping in gravity. All 3 batches were gorgeous beers.

3724: Stuck at 1.030. Then stuck at 1.020. Temps into 90s. Ultimately produced a nice beer but fermentation was frustrating

3711 + Dupont from bottle starter: Dropped to 1.001 from 1.050 in a few weeks. Bottles aren't fully conditioned but shows promise if that unfinished yeasty flavor goes away (I find it usually does).

Ross
08/13/10 09:42 PM  
Re: WLP565
I've got one that I just bottled right now that I fermented with 66% 3724 and 33% 3711. Let the temp rise into the upper 70's. 1.058 - 1.003. Seems okay but I wish it had more Juicy Fruit going on.
brewinhard
08/14/10 07:45 AM  
Re: WLP565
Ross,

Were those percentages based on starter sizes or direct pitch rates? I would bet that 3711 even at 33% quickly reproduced and helped to rip through the wort.

  Page:  1 2
Return to Forum

Post a Reply
Your Name:
Subject:
Message Body:


 
   
Username

Password

Around Bruges in 80 Beers: 2nd Edition

Around London in 80 Beers

Around Brussels in 80 Beers


Babblebelt contributors in attendance: