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Author Replies
Adrian
07/07/10 02:33 PM  
Re: Best Commercial Dregs
Thanks for the tips, Chad. I've covered the bottle with a tightly fitting piece of aluminum foil to keep bugs out.

12 days? Yikes. Alright. I'll revisit this thread (or start a new one) in a couple weeks.

As far as stepping up, it is my understanding the best way is to step up exponentially rather than linearly. If so, I was thinking:

1 pint (current stage)

1 pint + 1 pints = 2 pints

2 pints + 2 pints = 1 quart

1 quart + 1 quart = 2 quarts

(split starter and save half in fridge for future batches)

1 quart + 1 quart = 2 quarts

2 quarts + 2 quarts = 1 gallon

Ready for pitching? Too much starter (assume I plan to blend with a sacch yeast in primary)?

Also... slight tangent... no pellicle? Maybe that would explain why Avery15 didn't have a pellicle in the bottle? I treated a batch of Porter with Brett C (in secondary) a few years ago, and most of the bottles developed a pellicle that only settled out once I shook up the bottles or let them sit for a year or so.

Adrian
07/07/10 02:36 PM  
Re: Best Commercial Dregs
Errm... maybe that's not "exponential" growth. Oops.
Barc
07/07/10 02:39 PM  
Re: Best Commercial Dregs
Adrian,

I'm with others in saying to give it a few days and also swirl the bottle every time you think about it. I am currently using this yeast on a partial batch of saison and have used it in the past for other beers and can say it is worth the effort. If memory serves, it took several days to get this yeast going and I wasn't confident it was viable until I saw a few bubbles on the surface that weren't caused by my swirling.

A 1-quart starter may be sufficient for 5 gallons but it is probably underpitching by a bit. I try to make at least a half-gallon but that doesn't mean a quart would not work but it may take a while to get going. I try to take MrMalty with a grain of salt on some of its calculations as it does not account for the esters and phenols produced by a partially stressed yeast, at least imo... As an aside, I pitched a pint starter of this yeast into a half-gallon of the aforementioned saison and it took off in no time and "finished" within about 3 days (SG of 1.055) @ ~74-77 degrees.

Good luck.

Adrian
07/10/10 11:33 PM  
Re: Best Commercial Dregs
Woohoo! Thursday night I started seeing signs of life from the starter. So that's 3 days since I added wort to the dregs.

The smell is interesting. There's a vague hint of sourness, a bit of funk, and something that smells like hot dogs.

It's probably too soon to toss this in tomorrow's batch of WLP565 Saison so I'll build it up more and use some of it in the next Saison I plan to brew this summer.

brewinhard
07/11/10 02:44 PM  
Re: Best Commercial Dregs
Yum.... I love hotdogs in my saisons! Especially a good Texas Hot. Glad to hear the dregs finally started working. Always seems to give a sense of relief doesn't it?
tom sawyer
07/19/10 03:36 PM  
Re: Best Commercial Dregs
I'm growing a starter from some Oud Beersel dregs, one small bottle of kriek and one of gueuze. Its been going for several days now and looks like there is a good cell count as judged by the creamy/opaque/slightly reddish appearance. Its on a stir plate for aeration. I'll brew a small batch of something to pitch it into, this weekend.

I really enjoyed the Oud Beersel kriek, it was funky and quite tart. The gueuze was a little tame as far as sourness but still had a nice funk.

I really don't need more sour beer at this point, but I was dying to try the brews and hated to waste the bugs.

Adrian
09/11/10 12:44 PM  
Re: Best Commercial Dregs
I want to use this A-15 starter with WLP565. Should I:

a) Pitch them together at the start and let A-15 go for a ride up to 95 degF?

or

b) Pitch WLP565, let that go up to 95degF for a few days, and then let it cool to 75 degrees before pitching the A-15 starter?

Rob B
09/13/10 03:20 PM  
Re: Best Commercial Dregs
It is supposedly Brett from Drie Fontenein and brett is okay with warmer temps. i would pitch it at the same time.
Adrian
09/13/10 03:40 PM  
Re: Best Commercial Dregs
Ah well, I ended up pitching just WLP565 yesterday. Wort temperature this morning was about 77 degrees. (Pitched at ~70 yesterday midday.)

If I recall correctly, the A-15 starter is made from about 2 quarts of wort (growler is about half-full).

I was thinking I'd try to wake the yeast up by pouring off the spent beer and adding fresh wort before dumping it into the batch. However, maybe it makes more sense to simply dump the yeast in to the batch as is, and let it acclimate before the temperatures get any higher.

At this point the A-15 starter is about 2 months old, and the batch of beer I'm brewing is 5 gallons of SG 1057 wort.

As for pitching amount, I figured I'd dump in about half the starter (i.e. ~16oz) since the beer isn't very strong.

Also, I tasted the starter beer this weekend: smelled like lemon yoghurt. Kind of tasted tangy and yoghurt like too.

Adrian
09/14/10 02:26 PM  
Re: Best Commercial Dregs
Update:

Last night I poured off most of the spent beer from the starter (saved it in a glass to drink. Not too shabby. A bit thick tasting.). I saved about ~1/4 of the 1 quart slurry to make up a new starter and dumped the rest into the WLP565 based Saison I started on Sunday. Temperature at the time of pitching was 80 degrees. Time was 18 hours after pitching WLP565.

WLP565 had already partied as there were signs that the high krausen point had already happened a few hours earlier (damn this yeast starts off fast).

I turned up the heat and went to bed. 12 hours later the beer temp was up to 93 degrees. Yeast head had thinned out a bit, but the surface of the fermenting wort was fizzy like a vat of cola.

We'll see if the A-15 starter survives the torment. :)

Adrian
09/14/10 02:29 PM  
Re: Best Commercial Dregs
Oops:

" ~1/4 of the 1 quart slurry " should read, "~1/4 of the slurry from the 1 quart starter". So about a 1/4 cup of yeast slurry ended up being saved and about 3/4 of a cup of muddy A-15 yeast slurry the thickness of crepe batter ended up being pitched.

Adrian
09/14/10 11:07 PM  
Re: Best Commercial Dregs
Shit. Got home from work and checked the temperature of the beer: 105 degrees.

Damnit. Looks like I didn't turn the heater down enough this morning to account for the warm day.

Shall we take bets on whether or not the yeasts (WLP565 and A-45) are dead? The yeast head was still there and the beer was still a bit fizzy when I checked it last.

We'll see, I guess. :(

Adrian
09/24/10 03:59 PM  
Re: Best Commercial Dregs
Looks like the temperature spike didn't kill everything. 1 week after pitching, I see the yeast head is almost gone. Apparent attenuation came in at 68% (par for the course using WLP565). To be sure it ferments completely, I roused the settled yeast, pitched some more A-15 starter along with a 1/4 TSP of DAP and set my new spiffy temperature switch (Love TS2) to 84 degrees.

I figure I'll check it again in another week or two. if the yeast head is gone, I'll take another sample.

BTW, for those that have used A-15, how fast does it ferment? The starter I built up took a LONG time to ferment. We're talking about a week for the yeast head to fall compared to a couple days for normal beer yeast.

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