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brewinhard
07/02/10 06:51 PM  
Repitching lacto/ale yeast
Got a nice healthy starter of lacto going right now for my berliner that I will brew early next week. Plan on letting the lacto do its thing in the wort at warm temps before letting the temperature drop to yeast pitching temperatures. Will then pitch WL German Ale vial to finish things up (hopefully the pH won't be too low for the yeast to work).

Question:

Can I repitch this lacto/yeast blend into another berliner or will the yeast totally outgrow the slow moving lacto? Or will it be okay b/c the lacto will have a nice headstart and minimize yeast growth due to the decrease in pH? Any ideas out there?

Ryane
07/02/10 11:40 PM  
Re: Repitching lacto/ale yeast
Maybe someone with more microbiol knowledge can chime in on specifics but I successfully repitched Al's Berliner blend into another batch and that one came out a bit more sour than the first, but a bit funkier

Id say its doable, I wouldnt probably use the whole cake though....

Mike T
07/03/10 08:04 AM  
Re: Repitching lacto/ale yeast
Agreed with Ryane, the lacto will probably reproduce a bit quicker, so it will be a bit more sour. I had good results repitching a lacto US-05 slurry from a friend of mine (~12 oz bottle of beer slurry into 5 gallons).
ChrisKennedy
07/04/10 12:31 AM  
Re: Repitching lacto/ale yeast
I think your best option is to withhold a bit of the lacto when you pitch and build it up some more for repitching.

sl8w
07/05/10 01:11 AM  
Re: Repitching lacto/ale yeast
I've tried re-pitching the yeast/lacto, on two separate occasions, and both times the second batch had very little sourness.
brewinhard
07/05/10 10:08 AM  
Re: Repitching lacto/ale yeast
sl8w-

Did you pitch lacto and ale yeast simultaneously? If so, the limited sourness in batch 2 would make sense as the ale yeast probably out-competed the lacto pitch and grew faster fermenting the beer more neutrally. I now have my starter cold crashing in the fridge and trying to floc out the dusty lacto. I hopefully plan on brewing this one up tomorrow afternoon and let the lacto ferment for 36-48 hrs at warm temps (80 plus) before letting the temps cool and pitching a vial of german ale yeast (and possibly the dregs from a Fantome Hiver for some complexity). I am hoping for minimal fermentation from the yeast which would hopefully lead to a good balance for a repitchable batch.

sl8w
07/07/10 02:53 PM  
Re: Repitching lacto/ale yeast
On batch #1 I pitch them separately, lacto first. Those were great. I was talking about re-pitching the yeast/lacto slurry into a subsequent batch. Both times I tried that I got very little sourness. I now usually get new lacto each batch, but If I want to get 2 batches from a pack of lacto, I'll split the pack in 1/2 and build up starters for each.
tom sawyer
07/07/10 05:15 PM  
Re: Repitching lacto/ale yeast
Won't lacto "eat" carbs that yeast can't? So you can compensate for a higher percentage of Sacch in your re-pitch, by ensuring there is some starchy material/complex carbs in the wort for the lacto to utilize when simple sugars are used up? As in, mash at a high temp (156F) for a short time to get a less fermentable wort, thus leaving more food for the lacto. Just a thought.

Might also need to leave the beer longer to let it become more sour over time. Seems like lambics do this, the older Cantillon kreiken lambics I've had have been very tart.

Tom
07/07/10 05:41 PM  
Re: Repitching lacto/ale yeast
Tom Sawyer, I don't know if lacto is heterofermentive. Some strains will only eat glucose, and often times it is the other bugs in a blend that take care of the miscellaneous sugars and bring the gravity all the way down.
tom sawyer
07/07/10 08:35 PM  
Re: Repitching lacto/ale yeast
Could be, I thought the progression in lambics was sacch to lacto to brett. I suppose the brett could be breaking down the complex carbs for the lacto though.
brewinhard
07/18/10 01:08 PM  
Re: Repitching lacto/ale yeast
Update -

As I kegged my first batch of BW, I cooled and racked the 2nd no boil batch into the lacto from the first pitch. I also added a few shakes of US-05 as I am not sure if the vial of German Ale yeast I pitched into the last batch really did much b/c it was older (no starter) and probably stressed from getting thrown into a low pH environment. If all else fails at least I will have a low grav summer schwiller to enjoy!

 
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