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brewinhard
03/01/11 10:22 AM  
DMS with no boil beers?
Can anyone explain why no boil beers (ie Berliner Weisse) that only recieve a decoction boil and not a typical 90 min. boil as with most recipes do not showcase large amounts of DMS in the finished product? I have always been curious about that. Any thoughts?
DaveG
03/01/11 01:07 PM  
Re: DMS with no boil beers?
I'd also like to know more about this. I'm planning on doing a berliner without any of the decoctions. Am I going to get 5 gallons of rotten vegetables?
tankdeer
03/01/11 03:24 PM  
Re: DMS with no boil beers?
Beats me. But every no boil Berliner I've done or tasted has had zero DMS.
Patrick
03/01/11 04:36 PM  
Re: DMS with no boil beers?
It would be interesting to compare a no boil beer that didn't have such a low pH, like Berliner Weisse, to one with a higher pH. Maybe that has an affect, or maybe certain bacteria enjoy dining on DMS?
smellysell
03/02/11 12:21 AM  
Re: DMS with no boil beers?
I think the buturic acid overpowers the DMS. :p
brewinhard
03/02/11 11:16 AM  
Re: DMS with no boil beers?
but after the pH drops low enough through lactic acid production of the lactobacillus, don't butyric/enteric bacteria die off? So, does that mean that butyric acid is more noticeable than lactic acid in aroma and flavor?

Still confused....

tom sawyer
03/02/11 12:18 PM  
Re: DMS with no boil beers?
Only DMS formed during the kilning of malt will be present, and whatever is formed during the mash although its at a tmep where not much SMM convert to DMS. Most SMM converts to DMS at the boiling temps of the kettle. No boil means not a lot of DMS is ever present.
Mike T
03/02/11 01:40 PM  
Re: DMS with no boil beers?
Part of it is the fermentation as well. A lager cold lager fermentation does not drive off DMS as well as a warmer more vigorous ale fermentation. I remember reading in New Lager Brewing or How to Brew that you donít really need to worry as much about DMS in Ales.

I bring my Berliners up just to a boil before chilling and have never had issues with DMS.

jaymo
03/02/11 01:59 PM  
Re: DMS with no boil beers?
As Tom mentions above, DMS is actually formed during the boil, then driven off (if your lid is off.) While you will certainly have the precursors to DMS in a no-boil beer, they aren't converted to actual DMS until you boil the wort.

(Actually, I think it is above the 160F(?) range where the precursors start forming DMS. You're supposed to leave the lid off when chilling until the temp drops below that.)

brewinhard
03/03/11 11:38 AM  
Re: DMS with no boil beers?
If 160 happens to be the cutoff range, then if a mashout at 170 is used could this lead to more DMS production?
tom sawyer
03/03/11 09:19 PM  
Re: DMS with no boil beers?
I think the cutoff of 140F but it is a sliding scale so the most gets formed up towards boiling. I did a no-boil Berlinner weisse and it had no trace of DMS. Don't borrow trouble by worrying about things are theoretically possible. Just make some beer. If its not great drink it fast, if its excellent drink it faster and brew more.
brewinhard
03/04/11 11:29 AM  
Re: DMS with no boil beers?
Good point, but low amounts of DMS are hard for me to pick up on a personal level. I am trying to determine if my latest BW has any or if I am just getting some funk from the brett that was added. I am leaning towards that there are low levels of it. Will be sending it in to some comps soon for other's feedback.
jaymo
03/04/11 02:01 PM  
Re: DMS with no boil beers?
I've never picked up much, if any, in the no-boil BWs I've tried. There have definitely been some other flaws in some, but that is a discussion for another thread.
tom sawyer
03/04/11 05:03 PM  
Re: DMS with no boil beers?
This last Berlinner weisse I did was really light and not very sour. If there were DMS I would have picked it up in such a light spritzy beer, and I detected nothing of the sort. I wish I detected a little more sour, next time I'll let it sour longer.
 
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