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Selivem
07/22/11 08:24 AM  
Does Brett give Belgian phenols?
I'd like to make a beer that has a light Belgian and a strong Brett character. On the Brett side I'm looking for mostly pineapple and a bit of barnyard. On the Belgian side I would like just a touch of the Belgian phenols

Initially I was thinking fermenting just with an mix of White Lab Brett C and L. But now I'm wondering will an only Brett fermentation give the Belgian notes?

Do I have to add a Belgian yeast to the fermentation?

Selivem
07/22/11 01:07 PM  
Re: Does Brett give Belgian phenols?
I think I found my answer in Chad's work. The 4-vinylguaiacol in Brett primary fermentations is lower than the 0.3 mg/L threshold.

Would adding ferrulic acid in the form of wheat would help me go over the threshold and obtain this clove like flavor?

Alex L
07/22/11 04:50 PM  
Re: Does Brett give Belgian phenols?
I don't have my flavor compounds memorized but in general I have found that brett often removes many of the flavors of the primary yeast. I used the wphienstephan from wyeast (which I think gives off the 4-vinyl) in a weizenbock and added Brett Brux. During the secondary (don't ask why). While the beer never really gained strong Brett flavors those Clove/ banana flavors completely disappeared within a month while the other half that didn't get exposed to Brett still possessed those aromas. Not sure of this would still effect the phenols from something along the lines of a Trappist strain
Selivem
07/22/11 06:23 PM  
Re: Does Brett give Belgian phenols?
That could be the work of the vinylphenol reductase that transformed the 4-vinyl in 4-ethyl. I read it has been extracted from Brett Brux so it must be present there. Is this enzyme present at the same levels the Brett C and L that I'm planing to use and would it annihilate any Belgian character?

The thing is I tried last weekend the Deproef/Allagash "Les deux brasseurs". It had a tiny clove flavor that worked very well with the Brett pineapple/barnyard. I would like to do something similar. I just don't know how.

smellysell
07/23/11 12:05 AM  
Re: Does Brett give Belgian phenols?
Might start with emailing Allagash and seeing if they'll help.
brewinhard
07/24/11 03:49 PM  
Re: Does Brett give Belgian phenols?
Why not try a ferulic acid rest at 113 deg F for 10-15 min? This can help to increase the 4-VG in your finished beer. Combine that with the brett phenols during fermentation and you might get lucky!
tom sawyer
07/24/11 04:21 PM  
Re: Does Brett give Belgian phenols?
You might try blending at bottling and figuring on consuming it within an amount of time that would prevent the conversion.
Selivem
07/24/11 08:04 PM  
Re: Does Brett give Belgian phenols?
I just finished my brew day. I pitched a small starter 1Qt Brett C (Wlp-645) in 5 Gallons of wort, no aeration. I didn't use Brett L. My grist contained a bit of wheat (8# Pilsner, 2# dark malted wheat and 1# sour mashed Pilsner).

Now I'm crossing fingers.

Selivem
07/24/11 08:20 PM  
Re: Does Brett give Belgian phenols?
Tom, Brewinhard, Smellysell - sorry I just posted my previous message without seeing your replies.

The recipe is more or less what is written on the Deproef bottle except for the yeast and grist ratios which I don't know. I guessed Brett C because of the pineapple thing but they used two Brett yeasts and I'm not sure which ones.

The acid rest is a great idea but I also read Kaiser's experiment and he says the acid rest doesn't make a big difference for the ferulic acid extraction unless maybe if the rest is very long.

Blending is also a terrific idea. Maybe I'll make another batch with a different Brett and blend a few bottles. I'm plating a few commercial dregs. I plan to grow a few colonies and see if I can find nice yeasts among them. If so, I'll use the ones that smell the best.

Thanks for your replies!

 
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