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Author Replies
Troy Robinson
04/27/12 07:12 PM  
Re: Saison - Variations
My always-on-tap saison is basically an English pale ale recipe with saison yeast. I use a pale ale malt, with just a bit of caravienne or caramunich. I like the malt profile better than with Pilsner malt. I think I will try some oats in my next batch to get a little more body. Styrian Goldings or EKG's to about 35 IBU with a pretty big dose at flameout - about 2oz per 5 gallon batch. I have used cascade and amarillo before as well, but goldings seem to work the best. I guess it isn't exactly to style, and I have taken to calling it a Belgian Pale Ale lately. It is easier to explain "Pale Ale" to the uninitiated than "Saison".

ChrisF - triple decoction? That makes for a long brew day. If you haven't done it, it is worth doing once, but I won't be doing it again.

Nateo
04/29/12 01:12 PM  
Re: Saison - Variations
The biggest single thing that's improved my saisons is carbing to 4-5 volumes. I've been using 750ml champagne bottles, but I'm trying to find smaller bottles that will take that much pressure.
TimC
04/29/12 02:00 PM  
Re: Saison - Variations
Chris,

See 2) in my original post. I did get a bit of added malty flavor from the triple decoction mash. It proved to be an interesting experiment but my standard saison step mash is much easier and less time consuming.

ChrisF
04/29/12 07:20 PM  
Re: Saison - Variations
yeah, I'm currently in the midst of said triple decoction. definitely making for a long day, though, I was expecting that to be the case.

Hoping it's worth the time and energy. But yeah, step-mash is probably just as well.

ChrisF
04/29/12 07:53 PM  
Re: Saison - Variations
bit of an arduous journey this 3x decoction is. The math still flummoxes me, which isn't a good thing. My water is fairly hard and alkaline, so the acid rest was taking forever. Over nearly an hour the ph had only dropped from 7 to 6.2. I added a half# of acid malt and that drove it down to 5.7 or so. From there I added small additions of acid blend until it got down to a steady 5.1. That was easily an hour and a half just to get to there! Ugh. I'm sure once I'm all done and hindsight sets in, I will see all sorts of ways to fine-tune the process, but still....sheesh.
Paul V
05/31/12 03:49 PM  
Re: Saison - Variations
Has anyone used Sorghum as a sugar addition to their saison?
PaulV
05/31/12 04:06 PM  
Re: Saison - Variations
Has anyone used sorghum as a sugar addition to their saison?
ChrisF
06/12/12 06:02 PM  
Re: Saison - Variations
man... triple decoction was intense. not sure it suits my tastes for a saison. it's only been in the bottle for three week, so maybe this will change,... but as it stands it's just got waaaaay too much body. almost chewy. did an open fermentation though... that much I can report as a success. great aromas... best I've ever achieved.
chrisF
07/15/12 08:14 PM  
Re: Saison - Variations
I take it all back, after a month plus in 750's, the triple decocted is one of the best saison's I've ever made. Holds up quite well next to just about any US domestic farmhouse I've had.

Here's a new variant I made the other day....

Saison Braggot.

I kept this one pretty simple.

5 gallon batch-

3#'s pilsen DME

4#'s local wildflower honey.

32oz's of Knudsen's Just Tart cherry juice.

38ibu's-( I'm starting to like my saisons on the bitter side),

Blend of EKG's, WGV's, Hallertau's, used for both bittering and flavor additions. Also threw in a wee bit of sorachi ace and citra in the flavor and aroma additions.

some fresh camomile flowers added for 10 mins around 180f.

I blended the sour cherry juice and the honey in primary with a paint stirring attachment for my hand drill until the honey was completely dissolved.

After everything was chilled I mixed the wort with the must and pitched 3711 on top of it all.

Nice smell from the airlock.

1vertical
07/16/12 12:06 PM  
Re: Saison - Variations
My summer saison is just now going in the fermenter. Of interest was the handful of red cedar berries and large handful of nasturtium flowers that went in with and the knock out hops. Besides that it is a fairly simple beer with pale 2 row a little munich and a handfull each of bel aromatic, carafoam, and fermented with 3711 (I nicknamed the brute force yeast)
TimC
07/18/12 07:29 AM  
Re: Saison - Variations
ChrisF, I'm glad to hear that the decoction saison turned out well for you.

Last night I just put a "no-boil" spelt saison in the fermenter. The idea was to combine Berliner Weisse and saison. In the end I deviated quite a bit from Berliner methods. I somehow got 75% efficiency only collecting 5 gallons and just bringing it up to a boil before chilling. The hop rates aren't really in line with Berliner Weisse either, oh well.

7 lb Valley Malt pale

2 lb Valley Malt spelt

113-145-160 F step mash

.5 oz Nugget mash hops

.25 oz each Hallertau, EKG, Saaz First Wort Hops

.25 oz each Hallertau, Saaz, Styrian Goldings at flame out.

Wyeast 3711

1.050 OG

ChrisF
07/19/12 02:49 AM  
Re: Saison - Variations
thanks!

so wait, did you/ are you going to pitch lacto?

ChrisF
07/19/12 09:33 PM  
Re: Saison - Variations
Good question. I was planning to toss some raw grain in and let the lacto on that get going for a day or two before pitching the 3711. I decided against it because I didn't want to wait for the lacto flavors to round out. I have no saison ready at the moment and we're in the hottest part of the summer. Maybe I need to do this again with more of the Berliner techniques.
ChrisF
07/23/12 05:20 PM  
Re: Saison - Variations
ummmm, not sure if it's just me or what, but it looks like that last reply was posted under my name. weird, cause it wasn't me.

Anyway, I'm contemplating backsweetening the Honey Saison with, well, more honey when I go to keg, I'm guessing 1.005 is the upper limit of where I'd be doing so at.

My only question/concern comes from whether or not the 3711 will continue to ferment in that cold an environment or not. Or will I have to sulfite or something to inhibit its growth?

Having never done anything like this before, I'm unsure of what route to take,

TimC
07/24/12 06:49 PM  
Re: Saison - Variations
Chris, hmmm, that was my reply. Not sure what happened there. Sorry for the identity theft.
ChrisF
11/08/12 10:30 PM  
Re: Saison - Variations
First time experimenting with late hoping AND nelson Sauvins...tonight I made this...

75% PILS

10% munich light

5% melanoidin

%% sauer malt

% Turbinado sugar

mashed at 149 for 120 minutes, double batch sparge, no mash out. thinish mash

SG 1.58 -- 120 minute boil

44 Ibu's - .25 oz of Nelson Sauvin at 60 minutes

1 ounce Nelson Sauvin at 20 minutes

.25 NS at 15

.25 NS at 10

.25 NS & 1 ounce of Strisselspalt at 5 mins

1 ounce NS steeped for 10minutes at 175 during chill.

3711.

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