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Like the BBB, the homeBBBrew board is not a club, just a place to talk about making beer. Is there a swap you would like to see happen? If we can find a few others who have something similar then lets do it!

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I just really like the work levifunk is doing!

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Mike T
04/10/12 02:32 PM  
Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
Following a number of people on this board who have made the jump over the last few years, Iíll be helping get a commercial souring program off the ground. Rather than starting a brewery myself, or becoming a full-time brewer, Iíve been hired as a consultant for Modern Times Beer (http://moderntimesbeer.com/) in San Diego. They are still more than a year from opening, but weíve talked about barrels, foeders, wild fermentations etc.

Iím hoping to set the beers apart by introducing a wide amount of variation (barrel sizes, woods, strains, pitching rates, racking schedules etc.) in an attempt to produce a wide range of beers for blending. Most likely weíll focus on a couple beers that will be blended, fruited, dry hopped, spiced etc. in a variety of ways. It doesnít seem worth making 10 base beers when places like Cantillon do so much with one or two. Iím still waiting until a location is chosen, so I have some idea of space/temperature constraints, to really put a detailed plan onto paper.

Cheers, and thanks for all the knowledge Iíve picked up from all of you over the years!

Joel Mahaffey
04/10/12 08:28 PM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
Congratulations, Mike!
Tom
04/10/12 08:31 PM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
COngrats, that's awesome
Paul V
04/11/12 11:05 AM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
Congrats Mike! I really like the idea of blending off one or two base beers.
Tom
04/11/12 11:28 AM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
Your Dark Funky Saison with Black Cardamon and Dates would be awesome if it was available for purchase.....not sure how feasable it would be on a pro scale.

I really like the idea with the off shoots of the base beers to.

tankdeer
04/11/12 11:35 AM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
Just read this on your blog, and it's awesome. I'll have to pay you guys a visit next time I visit SD
SteveG
04/12/12 10:18 AM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
Way to go Mike! Are you the same Mike T from the Baltimore/Washington that I swap ice cider with? I only ask cause of the San Diego gig.
Mike T
04/12/12 03:46 PM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
Yep, same guy, and still in DC (I was part of the 100% Brett swap all those years ago too). The BBB also gets a few mentions in the book on American sour beers that Iíve been writing for the last year (still waiting to hear final word from Brewers Publications). Here is the draft table of content if anyone is interested: http://i.imgur.com/NrYIj.jpg

I'd love to talk the guy running Modern Times into doing some of those dark saisons on the big system. Hopefully I can also convince him on the "seasonal" concept the way we have been doing them, brewing something each year reminiscent of the fall, but not necessarily with the same recipe or ingredients.

Thanks again for the kind words everyone! Not sure how much I'll actually be at the brewery, just a few weeks a year at first. Hopefully the timing works out to show some of you guys around.

SteveG
04/13/12 11:00 AM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
Hey Mike - this is OT but fun to bring up none the less. I have finally had success in making Ice Cider. Through a new freeze-thaw method I managed to get a batch of must down to 1.130. I discovered via a couple ice cider tastings I attended - that was also attended by producers - that getting to 1/3 the starting volume is the minimum requirement to make something like what the Canadians produce, 25% original volume is ideal. Took me 6 weeks to make 3 gallons! Then you have to stop fermentation artificially at a pre-determined gravity. No easy task.
Gordon A
04/13/12 11:36 AM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
Seeing that table of contents makes me excited to get the book. Congrats on the consultant job!
Mike T
04/13/12 01:56 PM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
Interesting Steve, more details posted anywhere? Maybe this fall I'll give it another shot.

Thanks Gordon. Let me know if anything looks missing. Iíve been hitting the scientific literature pretty hard lately, trying to get better answers about what the various microbes can and canít ferment, ideal conditions, influences on byproduct production etc. Having a hard time figuring out if it is better to have anecdotal information about the way brewery X does something, or scientific studies that show what happens in heavily controlled/isolated situations (what type of dextrins can the enzymes extracted from Brett actually break down, for example).

Almighty
04/13/12 04:08 PM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
I am also very excited to see a brewery in the works that will produce some sour and funky beers. As great of a beer town San Diego is, it really does not have many breweries making sour beer.

Good luck and I look forward to hearing about your progress

SteveG
04/13/12 04:21 PM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
No details posted anywhere, truth be told it's tough to find people who are interested. Shame, an authentic ice cider is such a delight.
Mike T
04/16/12 08:51 AM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
Thanks Almighty. One of our ideas is to do a solera Flemish red, hopefully get the production to where it can be a year round beer. I think it would be great to have something in that vein available year round, on draft, for a reasonable price.

Steve, you just may not have the right audience. If you don't mind venturing to another board, this one has a decent amount of cider discussion: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/

SteveG
04/16/12 03:58 PM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
That does seem like a good resource. I tried to start a cider board follow the last Cider Days event. dismal failure. It is good to see a cider community out there.
Almighty
04/16/12 04:13 PM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
I would really like access to a year round Flanders Red (Other than the typical Belgian beers) and draft would be nice treat.

It would also be a huge draw to your tasting room if you could try the different variations (cherry, dry hopped) or even beers from different barrels before you blended.

Alpine makes a very nice one, but it is super limited and once a year. Karl Strauss makes one, once a year, but it is overly sweet and fruity. And I can't think of another.

And let me know if there is anyway I can help you. I'm local to San Diego and would like to see this project become successful.

Gordon A
04/16/12 11:13 PM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
"It would also be a huge draw to your tasting room if you could try the different variations (cherry, dry hopped) or even beers from different barrels before you blended."

This. One of my most memorable tasting room experiences was at Full Sail in Hood River, OR. A lot of their beer isn't all that remarkable, but I got to try all three barrel types that went into their Bourbon Imp. Porter.

As far as the book, I like references to scientific studies myself, but I know anecdotal info is a lot more palatable to a lot of people.

Cody
04/17/12 08:29 AM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
I think you should do a balance of both scientific and anecdotal. It would give both sides of the story. Scientific findings are really important, but sometimes too controlled to be useful in the homebrewing world, and anecdotes will give real-life scenarios for what the yeast/bacteria can do, from which brewers can model their own systems.
Mike T
04/17/12 09:27 AM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
We will certainly have a robust tasting room. Single barrel, fruit, spice, dry hop stuff will certainly be on the menu. Between the produce of California, and the great local ethnic communities, I shouldnít have trouble finding fun ingredients to play with.

The current plans also include having a pilot system to churn out experimental batches, weíve talked about doing various side-by-sides with water adjustments, mash temperature, hop timing etc. We are looking to have an educational component as well as doing more flavorfully interesting stuff.

As for the book, my thoughts are on the same line as yours Cody. Iíve got a couple friends who are far more scientifically minded than I am helping me translate the real world applications of the studies Iíve been able to dig up. One of the reasons Iíd like to self-publish is so I can do updates as the scientific literature grows (and as I learn what does and doesnít work on the micro-brewery production scale).

Almighty
04/17/12 04:35 PM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
The tasting room is a big deal especially when you have a city like San Diego with so many homebrewers and educated beer drinkers. The new White Labs tasting room has been amazing for the homebrew community, they brew one wort and pitch several yeast strains side by side and then serve them in the tasting room. Now, I no longer have to try this at home.

For your book, I agree that the people who will make the big bucks are the ones that can take the scientific language that 5% understand and explain it to the other 95%. Just let me know when I can pre-order the book.

Almighty
04/18/12 12:30 PM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
Mike, I had another thought about your book. I also think it would be nice if you could self-publish, what about using Kick Starter (http://www.kickstarter.com/)? For $15 or $20 you get the book, for $30 you get the book signed, etc.

I am sure with the readership on your blog, forums, articles you could fund the publishing.

Mike T
04/18/12 03:24 PM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
Depending on what happens with Brewers Publication, Iíll consider it. The issue is that Kickstarter is designed to raise money for a project, not market it after completion. It would be a much bigger hassle for me to have to package/ship all of those books, rather than just have people order them directly from Amazon. With their Create Space there is no upfront investment, you just submit a PDF, and they put the book up for sale, print it on demand, and cut you checks for 30% of the retail.
tom sawyer
04/18/12 04:56 PM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
What do you think your frequency of pulls will be on your Flanders red solera? I ask because I have an 11gal wood barrel I'm doing this with, first pull of 3gal at 9mth was good stuff, second 3gal pull was more sour and I'm wondering if I need to pull a larger percentage or just plan on blending.
Mike T
04/18/12 05:28 PM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
Timing pulls is such a barrel specific thing, it is hard to guess. If we are brewing a specific wort for it, then it will have to be less frequent pulls of a larger volume. The rule is that the average age of the beer will converge on the inverse of the pull rate (pull half a year and youíll get beer that is an average of two years old). In your case if you pull 3/11 of the batch every ĺ of a year, youíd end up with beer that is on average 2.75 years old, pretty well aged for a red. Might want to start pulling more beer.

If we were stealing wort from another beer, and we wanted to leave a touch of sweetness, if would be interesting to see how pulling a smaller amount more frequently would work out. Say replace 1/6 of the volume every three months. That would end up with a beer that was about 18 months old on average, but with 1/6 of each pull only being 3 months old kegging would be the only safe option.

Almighty
04/19/12 12:02 PM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
I don't know a lot about the publishing process, but I thought you would need some min. order or down payment to get started and that is what Kickstarter would do. Once you get past the initial point, I'd imagine you'd be free to sell through any distribution channel.

Good luck and keep the BBB updated on the book and brewery.

Mike T
04/19/12 02:53 PM  
Re: Modern Times Beer - Another BBB'er Goes Pro
That is the great thing about on demand printing, they don't care if you want 5 copies or 5,000 the price per copy is the same. They do have additional services that cost money up front, like formatting, editing, cover design etc. However, Iíll probably end up doing that myself or tricking friends into helping.
 
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